Okay, so I normally don't have much trouble with arrangement, but lately I feel as though my tracks are somewhat boring in terms of arrangement and structure. My tracks tend to flow something like this: intro-verse-prechorus(occasionally)-chorus-verse-prechorus-chorus-bridge-chorus(sometimes doubled)-outro. On occasion, I use a more EDM-style of structure like: intro-verse-breakdown-drop/chorus-verse-breakdown-drop-bridge-build-final drop/chorus-outro/fadeout.
I don't have any problem with this, but after using more or less those same two setups for all my tracks, I can't help but feel... stumped; like I'm not getting any better at arranging my tracks.
So, I was wondering if any of you have any tips/advice/things to try/comments; anything really, that might help me get myself out of this musical rut.
Some advice on arrangement and structure?
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 3 Dec, 2011
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- KVRAF
- 7837 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
Form is not arrangement rhough they are closely related.
Arrangement dictates how the instrumentation builds through the form. A standard pop form....builds tension by building parts. It's like a story. Something big happens at the beginning then things much of the action dries up because it interfers with the story. As the story rises to a climax different elements are introduced.
The average song.
Attention getting intro. Usually many parts.
The first verse. Parts get stripped away to the basics like bassline, vocal and uncluttered drums. Other instruments come in at different times later on. Rhythms become more active supporting instruments come into play then... Bam the hook and the payoff.
Take Katy Perry
Starts with a simple motif and no other instruments. Then the drums and vocals come in. The vocals slowly build up for the payoff Bass and more instrumentation. Her arranger was smart enough to put in a dramatic pause or two just a little hang time when everything stops between the hook and the payoff.
The more you listen for it the more you will hear it in other songs across all genre's. You'll also see it in tv shows movies and books.
For what it's worth most singers don't like their own voice and most songwriters quickly become bored with their own material. If they work alone then they have to wag the dog after time. If they work with others or get feedback off of others it's a double edged sword. Some says the like it what do they know? Someone says they don't like it what do they know?
The average joe on the street is not capable of giving an effective critique as they don't have the tools to do so. And those who might be able to give an honest analytical critique to further refine your material may simply not want to be bothered by listening because they are much to into themselves. It's a rough road. All you can do is put out your stuff wait for the reviews to comeback throw away the stuff that doesn't help you and use the stuff that does.
Arrangement dictates how the instrumentation builds through the form. A standard pop form....builds tension by building parts. It's like a story. Something big happens at the beginning then things much of the action dries up because it interfers with the story. As the story rises to a climax different elements are introduced.
The average song.
Attention getting intro. Usually many parts.
The first verse. Parts get stripped away to the basics like bassline, vocal and uncluttered drums. Other instruments come in at different times later on. Rhythms become more active supporting instruments come into play then... Bam the hook and the payoff.
Take Katy Perry
Starts with a simple motif and no other instruments. Then the drums and vocals come in. The vocals slowly build up for the payoff Bass and more instrumentation. Her arranger was smart enough to put in a dramatic pause or two just a little hang time when everything stops between the hook and the payoff.
The more you listen for it the more you will hear it in other songs across all genre's. You'll also see it in tv shows movies and books.
For what it's worth most singers don't like their own voice and most songwriters quickly become bored with their own material. If they work alone then they have to wag the dog after time. If they work with others or get feedback off of others it's a double edged sword. Some says the like it what do they know? Someone says they don't like it what do they know?
The average joe on the street is not capable of giving an effective critique as they don't have the tools to do so. And those who might be able to give an honest analytical critique to further refine your material may simply not want to be bothered by listening because they are much to into themselves. It's a rough road. All you can do is put out your stuff wait for the reviews to comeback throw away the stuff that doesn't help you and use the stuff that does.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
'arrangement' is kind of more holistic, it's the form and the instrumentation and nowadays the production is part of the arrangment since you have the same person doing it. Ie., I approach mixing and orchestration as one these days.
kind of like talking about the 'presentation' as a whole.
TBH, the things said about the structure seem cookie-cutter to me... Instead of the idea, form following function, or form and content having correspondence, the form suiting the content rather than insisting on a container & then satisying that. For me that's backwards, cookie cutter rules ok...
kind of like talking about the 'presentation' as a whole.
TBH, the things said about the structure seem cookie-cutter to me... Instead of the idea, form following function, or form and content having correspondence, the form suiting the content rather than insisting on a container & then satisying that. For me that's backwards, cookie cutter rules ok...
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- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
I have listened to your songs and I come to a similar conclusion - they sound not bad, but a bit boring.
First what I like: your "minimal electronic" style. In times in which everything has to be bigger, fatter and harder, this is a refreshing approach.
But it shouldn't be too minimal. Your songs sound a bit too much constructed, there are many parts but no connection between them. One part goes, the next part comes, then the next one...and so on...and suddenly the song is over.
You should take more tension & release in it. More building up to a climax, more dynamic, more feeling. Music is about emotion, it isn't like technically constructing houses. You need more colors, more elements, more effects!
That's the cause why many DJ's make really good songs: they feel the emotion from the crowd and put it into their songs! They make songs that people respond to from their desires.
I think you shouldn't re-invent the songwriting wheel and jumbling the whole arrangement around. Verse-Verse-Bridge-Chorus-Bridge-Verse-Prechorus-Verse-Bridge-Chorus wouldn't sound better...
I rather recommend you to make THE PARTS THEMSELVES more interesting with more tension & release and variation.
First what I like: your "minimal electronic" style. In times in which everything has to be bigger, fatter and harder, this is a refreshing approach.
But it shouldn't be too minimal. Your songs sound a bit too much constructed, there are many parts but no connection between them. One part goes, the next part comes, then the next one...and so on...and suddenly the song is over.
You should take more tension & release in it. More building up to a climax, more dynamic, more feeling. Music is about emotion, it isn't like technically constructing houses. You need more colors, more elements, more effects!
That's the cause why many DJ's make really good songs: they feel the emotion from the crowd and put it into their songs! They make songs that people respond to from their desires.
I think you shouldn't re-invent the songwriting wheel and jumbling the whole arrangement around. Verse-Verse-Bridge-Chorus-Bridge-Verse-Prechorus-Verse-Bridge-Chorus wouldn't sound better...
I rather recommend you to make THE PARTS THEMSELVES more interesting with more tension & release and variation.