Boring melody rhythms?

[jancivil]

[highkoo]

If enjoy making avantgarde keep yourself to it. And stop giving advice in the areas where you have no experience.

stop giving me advice, child.

Ha, wow.


A fun thing to do in this subforum is to count how many posts happen without someone either insulting everyone elses intelligence, or squeezing in a mention of their resume', or both.

Oh, or disparaging entire genres, whilst trying to give the ultimate advice on them.

What happened to the OP and his question?

Well, somehow that turned into someone cranking out an 'electronica' tune in six hours and daring anyone to match it, so as to prove the point that his path in life lead him to a greater artistic destination than the next guy.
I suppose there was a lesson to be learned there.
Oh, or am I mistaken and that was the same players in the other multi-page thread in this subforum?

[shankfiddle]

A fun thing to do in this subforum is to count how many posts happen without someone either insulting everyone elses intelligence, or squeezing in a mention of their resume', or both.

And then the posts from those like this guy, who have absolutely nothing to contribute... if you were speaking instead of typing, that comment woulda been a waste of valuable oxygen.

http://soundcloud.com/shankfiddle/mischevious-spirits

This one's called "Mischevious Spirits". This title refers to both the spirits of dead composers who explore and experiment with their centuries-old-pieces through me AND the beverages I was imbibing throughout the compositional process it started as a "cover" of a chopin etude. For those not familiar with the "classical" jargon, an etude is an exercise to develop skills and dexterity, etudes are very rarely performed, it's like a scale, only meant to give you skills to use later in other contexts.

The whole point here was to contrast the last one. So this one has almost no melody, it revolves predominantly around harmony/rhythm (I don't consider arpeggiators to be melody) while still maintaining complexity. I was so tempted to add at least a couple melody layers with phrasing-automation and perhaps later I will, but I was approaching my deadline and that was that, hand's off. If it wasn't for my internet connection and soundcloud being slow, I would have met it... but alas, 15 minutes late means complete and utter failure!

Here's my process: i started by transcribing the solo piano part, great ear-training practice. I only "sampled"/stole the first couple phrases, so it wasn't that gargantuan a task. That midi clip was the foundation for the whole track. The piano part Chopin composed gave me both a spicy progression and a nice bassline in the left hand to work with.


Actually stole isn't the right word, i "quoted" chopin, because this was done without ever drag-n-dropping a single sample into my DAW. But since I only used a tiny portion of the etude, it wasn't quite enough... The next two pieces on my ipod's shuffle were a Dvorak quartet in F maj and a Beethoven symphony. So I started with quality source material and THEN got creative with form, feeding these classical pieces into each other and whatnot. And get this: it's not piracy because I've educated myself enough to work by ear, you can't prosecute me for that!

I actually never think of the product I want to produce, I just imagine a process and do it, see what comes out. I can generally make accurate predictions of what a track will sound like, but my attitude is that as a composer I'm not in control, more along for the ride- and in that state of mind, more cool discoveries/surprises pop out at me. The music shows ME where to go, not the other way around.

Such as at the end I discovered that the descending chromaticism nicely prepares a m3 (square) modulation, even though Chopin decided to stay in key. So at the end, "Spirits" modulates every phrase, oscillating between two keys, cause I like how just as you're getting settled into a key, the floor drops out from underneath and the ear has to readjust.

I'm really glad I took the time to learn about modulations so that when the music asked for them, I had the skills to be able to notice and realize it. I'm glad I did all the ear training I did so that the "sampling" process was quick and automatic, not requiring any technology (for the transcription, obviously i used a daw and synths to process the transcribed parts). I'm thankful for my extensive study of counterpoint and 4-part harmony so that I can "quote" a melody and recompose different chords underneath it. All very valuable skills to have.

[coquillo]

http://soundcloud.com/shankfiddle/mischevious-spirits

All very valuable skills to have.

Indeed but it sounds like something Band-In-A-Box might produce.

[highkoo]

And then the posts from those like this guy, who have absolutely nothing to contribute... if you were speaking instead of typing, that comment woulda been a waste of valuable oxygen.

Id say all the LOLing I did reading the big circle jerk here made up for it.
But fair enough. I dont have much to contribute on your level. Im just one of the peons trying to glean some hint of knowledge from all the experience here.

I do see the points of frustration that have been noted about this subforum. Mostly that advice on 'complex' melodies is being asked for while the asker might not have the comprehension, or the motivation to comprehend, the "answers".
Fair points. I can see how it is frustrating and 'childish' to someone who has such expertise in classical theory, etc.
But what did you expect to find? A forum full of willing learners, taking your words of wisdom and running off to study?
I wonder who you think the audience is here and what they are doing. While I think learning theory is definitely valuable, to everyone, I think that it is more useful in some genres than others. And I do disagree with the assertion that this theory knowledge by default means someone is a better musician, and thus creating better music.
It is not a direct correlation.
Maybe people with background in theory also have high student loan bills?
How do student loan payments influence "good" music?

Runners tend to wear nice shoes.
People who are wearing nice shoes are not necessarily runners.

I'm really glad I took the time to learn about modulations so that when the music asked for them, I had the skills to be able to notice and realize it. I'm glad I did all the ear training I did so that the "sampling" process was quick and automatic, not requiring any technology (for the transcription, obviously i used a daw and synths to process the transcribed parts). I'm thankful for my extensive study of counterpoint and 4-part harmony so that I can "quote" a melody and recompose different chords underneath it. All very valuable skills to have.

So do you think that track is somehow 'great'?
I do not mean that as an offense, and I do not mean that it is a bad track.
But, you seem to imply that because your four paragraphs of theory went into it that it is better, or that it should be more respected than the last or the next.
Not taking genre into consideration is.. childish.

[shankfiddle]

But what did you expect to find? A forum full of willing learners, taking your words of wisdom and running off to study?
I wonder who you think the audience is here and what they are doing.

what you need to realize is that this is a public forum and the audience is much wider than those posting in the threads. you're the one responding here, but the audience is much much wider. the smartest and most mature are those who read the forum for new ideas and learn, and actually DO go off and think and process these ideas on their own, study. investigate the theory. you don't and that's you, but that doesn't mean other people aren't learning.

there's orders of magnitude more 'views' to each thread than posts. these aren't personal conversations.

Let's hear your music, guy

"taking genre into consideration" you mean fit a cookie-cutter? or something else...demonstrate for me please. I'm hearing much talk and seeing no walk, hahahhahaha

[highkoo]

I just meant that the sites userbase as a whole is possibly not as geared in the classical/theory direction as some other general 'Music Forums' might be due to the focus on plugins, which until recently were used by 'kids doing techno' only.

My music is in my sig, on SoundCloud.
Its hiding in the punctuation cuz I dont give a shit if anyone hears it casually.
Obviously not much theory, or even melody is going on in there. Im not sure what genre half of it is.
Anyway, I would be interested to know what someone from your point of view thinks of it if you are inclined. Im listening to yours and Jans now.

edit:
'Ignorance Be Gone' is great. I do feel like its heading towards something that doesnt happen, but its great.

[coquillo]

I'm hearing much talk and seeing no walk, hahahhahaha

Me too. Your track is totally cookie cutter stuff. Ten minutes work with BIAB.

[highkoo]

"taking genre into consideration" you mean fit a cookie-cutter? or something

Well, if thats someones thing, then yeah.
If someone says they want to make xyz. Or even worse, if they say they want to sound like xyz, then yeah Id say there are considerations to be made about what knowledge is more useful to one person or another.

e.g.
A up and coming hip hop producer better know how to work Twitter a lot better than he knows how to work the circle of fifths.
And if he knows both, he better pronounce it "Fiffs".

Hey, can I 'quote' "Gypsies roll in packs"?
I cant play it. Its cool though. I'll resynthesize it.
Nice one though.
http://soundcloud.com/shankfiddle/gypsies-roll-in-packs

[highkoo]

Here ya go:

http://soundcloud.com/highkoo/badger-stay-vector


Dont judge me!
I used to make House music...

[shankfiddle]

Hey, can I 'quote' "Gypsies roll in packs"?

Why the hell not? if you have the ears to do it, go for it. It would be nice if you could post your work here so people can see its evolution, that would be really cool. and that would be ACTUALLY walking the walk, go for it.

I don't believe ideas belong to anyone, i got them from somewhere... If you find an idea you like, steal it, quote it, use it, build on it, learn, progress the species. It helps the world a lot more than talking shit.

Them ideas're mine, give them back!

[jancivil]

A fun thing to do in this subforum is to count how many posts happen without someone either insulting everyone elses intelligence, or squeezing in a mention of their resume', or both.

And then the posts from those like this guy, who have absolutely nothing to contribute... if you were speaking instead of typing, that comment woulda been a waste of valuable oxygen.

yeah, I have that one muted for LONG time.

[highkoo]

I know, Im a real jerk. Not nice and pleasant like you.

[jancivil]

But what did you expect to find? A forum full of willing learners, taking your words of wisdom and running off to study?
I wonder who you think the audience is here and what they are doing.

what you need to realize is that this is a public forum and the audience is much wider than those posting in the threads.

that's right, a lot of people read and do not post. believe it or not people contact me privately to thank me and take lessons.

it's like you ('highkoo') want the audience to exclude the people that just sat and listened, and hecklers like you are the real audience. People that care might not all want to show their arse like some here have.

[jancivil]

I'm hearing much talk and seeing no walk, hahahhahaha

Me too. Your track is totally cookie cutter stuff. Ten minutes work with BIAB.

well I only heard the first thing skankfiddle posted. It had its own form, no doubt.

I shouldn't say more about the ones I didn't hear.

me, I eschew known forms in my own, personal music. I don't need to say everything that adheres to known forms is cookie cutter, you can do a chaconne or a passacaglia or what the hell ever and say something of your own with it. It's a combo of form and content that would get me to that kind of opinion.