Waves NLS Non-Linear Summer released

[jam92189]

I don't think that this is practical...

Here is why:
Let's take your usual consumer console, either a Mackie or a Behringer, maybe even Allan and Heith.

Most of these "cheap" devices do not work module based, but there are several channels soldered on to one board. Now if you overload a channel here, there is a huge chance you affect the others in the process. This is the nasty bleeding effect a lot of engineers try to evade.

A negative sideeffect of that "bleeding" (that some of you apparently want) is also ducking channels, or distorting them. Quinto pretty much implemented that with STRIPbus. Only that you have a certain control here.


Now... large scale consoles work module based. At least most of them. Meaning: each channel strip works individual and is connected to the full array (routed to the summing bus) in parallel through own means. Usually these channels are not connected unless you want them to. In theory we could talk about galvanic disconnection (which would be the best way possible), but in reality this doesn't happen (radiation, etc).

Here the channel differences make sense if you take a look at the whole module. A damaged resistor or a capacitor can mess with the whole channel. Or let's say the module wasn't properly installed, then you have additional noise and the liking. This is what Waves tried to pull off, and other firms/developers like Slate and AlexB (with modification of his own consoles) tried to evade. It can add some certain flavor, but I see it as damaged components that need to be fixed.


What you ask is a complete "console" built after. Which would mean you need a dedicated system. But we have that already! It's our host!

Our host is the most clean and most correct working tool that we have at our disposal. It is a tape machine and a console in one! You can't get any better than that.


The thing that we miss in this case however is the conversation from kinetic energy to electric energy and therefore bits and bytes. Stuff that let things sound alive. And here we talk about preamps and microphones. All with their dedicated frequency response, harmonic distortion (if the circuity demands it or does so on purpose) plus our more or less flat AD/DA's.

It is no weakspot whatsoever to just use a (simple) digital host like Cubase, Logic, Acid, FLStudio, Sonar, StudioONE, RECORD, Samplitude and how they are all called. If we want more flavour, we grasp for things that model analog devices such as certain EQ's, compressor, preamps, guitar amps, microphone modelers or in this case a console.


Really, in reality engineers around the globe tried to evade all he negative sideeffect of analog equipment. Now we scream for these tools again in digital form yet barely anyone realises what we have at our disposal already.

There were even A/B tests with passive summing modules (cables again), and the only "coloring" that happened here was due to the gain compensation of the preamp prior to the AD/DA again. That and the more finer resolution due to voltage rather than bits and bytes that literally no one can hear!

Forget the "blind tests" - there is no secret magic going on and a 20grand digital cable doesn't sound better than a properly built 20bucks DIY one.

i love this post i agree with you on many points here

[Sequent]

Just a slightly OT sidetrack about the Beatles book...

I'm assuming it's the one by Kevin Ryan and Brian Kehew.

This book looks 'crazy' good. Apparently they discuss all the minutiae of what was used down to the exact second at which a certain compressor might kick in, etc. It seems that with the cds in hand and reading the book one could really get a good idea of what effect different things have, etc. as well as how things might be used and so forth. I really like that.

The book is available on Amazon from the Marketplace but not directly so the lowest asking price is currectly $137.69. That's for a used book classified as "good". The prices for "new" begin at $144.94. The shipping cost is an extra $3.99. Contrary to what Amazon lists, the book actually weighs 11 pounds! So another thing to watch for is Marketplace vendors cutting corners and trying to put extra money in their pocket by using ultra cheap shipping. Not to mention the "crappy" boxes, etc. that some vendors use.

The better alternative might be ordering directly from Curvebender Publishing. They have a special site: http://www.recodingthebeatles.com Their asking price is $100 and it looks like Fedex shipping is only about $10-15. The book is listed as being in stock and the site appears to be current as they talk about the authors giving a presentation about Abbey Roads Studios in March 2012.

A big shoutout to Compyfox for mentioning this book!! It looks fascinating! It's been out for a few years now but I actually missed it... and probably would not have even known about until much later and much too late to even be able to get it. So, thank you, thank you!!!


Okay. Apologies for sidetracking (though not really) the thread. Now back to our discussion...

[MickGael]

Just a slightly OT sidetrack about the Beatles book...

I'm assuming it's the one by Kevin Ryan and Brian Kehew.

This book looks 'crazy' good. Apparently they discuss all the minutiae of what was used down to the exact second at which a certain compressor might kick in, etc. It seems that with the cds in hand and reading the book one could really get a good idea of what effect different things have, etc. as well as how things might be used and so forth. I really like that.

The book is available on Amazon from the Marketplace but not directly so the lowest asking price is currectly $137.69. That's for a used book classified as "good". The prices for "new" begin at $144.94. The shipping cost is an extra $3.99. Contrary to what Amazon lists, the book actually weighs 11 pounds! So another thing to watch for is Marketplace vendors cutting corners and trying to put extra money in their pocket by using ultra cheap shipping. Not to mention the "crappy" boxes, etc. that some vendors use.

The better alternative might be ordering directly from Curvebender Publishing. They have a special site: http://www.recodingthebeatles.com Their asking price is $100 and it looks like Fedex shipping is included. The book is listed as being in stock and the site appears to be current as they talk about the authors giving a presentation about Abbey Roads Studios in March 2012.

A big shoutout to Compyfox for mentioning this book!! It looks fascinating! It's been out for a few years now but I actually missed it... and probably would not have even known about until much later and much too late to even be able to get it. So, thank you, thank you!!!


Okay. Apologies for sidetracking (though not really) the thread. Now back to our discussion...

For those interested, the book itself is (physically) a behemoth. I have one of the numbered first run editions, so I'm not sure what it comes with now, but the deluxe version has some extremely cool goodies. The asking price IS a lot, but once you have it in your hands I think you'd have been willing to pay even more.

[Sequent]

On the book again... I've updated my post to say that shipping from the publisher is extra and not included. But it's only about $10-15.

The book that I just purchased does look like it still includes the extras (and a slipcase?). I was really debating about whether to go for it, because it IS a lot for a book. But I decided to do it. It's one of those things... like the Alan Parsons DVD set from Keyfax that seems a good investment in learning more about the tools of the trade.

(And seeing the quote from AP on the site made me think... okay, I'm doing it.)

[MickGael]

On the book again... I've updated my post to say that shipping from the publisher is extra and not included. But it's only about $10-15.

The book that I just purchased does look like it still includes the extras (and a slipcase?). I was really debating about whether to go for it, because it IS a lot for a book. But I decided to do it. It's one of those things... like the Alan Parsons DVD set from Keyfax that seems a good investment in learning more about the tools of the trade.

(And seeing the quote from AP on the site made me think... okay, I'm doing it.)

You are going to flip out when you get it. Epic.

PS - The slipcase looks like an original EMI tape box and is very robust.

[scalawag]

A negative sideeffect of that "bleeding" (that some of you apparently want) is also ducking channels, or distorting them. Quinto pretty much implemented that with STRIPbus. Only that you have a certain control here.

No a certain but a TOTAL control.

[MFXxx]

Well finally dived in and purchase NLS and decided to also get SSL pack using the recent WUP, will be testing and using over the weekend

Thanks to max at Waves Universe for a great deal, fast communication and a smooth transaction.

Im such a plugin whore, I mean enthusiast.

Peace

[Compyfox]

A negative sideeffect of that "bleeding" (that some of you apparently want) is also ducking channels, or distorting them. Quinto pretty much implemented that with STRIPbus. Only that you have a certain control here.

No a certain but a TOTAL control.

I haven't seen a more recent version, but elder ones were pretty limited on the "auto connection" part and how strong the neighboring channels are affected on overload. Else you have a lot of control indeed.

Still I consider this a negative sideeffect however.

Well finally dived in and purchase NLS and decided to also get SSL pack using the recent WUP, will be testing and using over the weekend

Keep in mind that the SSL pack also tries to simulate a channel strip along with it's saturation. You really have to listen and utilize a proper gain staging (remember -18dB reference level). Chances are you add just too much.

Think about it:
NLS adds "saturation" on a per channel basis (since it simulates a channel strip sans EQ/comp/gate), so does SSL 4k (analog mode on). You have two channel strips in series.

In my case, I have the British Bundle from Nomad, and more than often I catch myself not turning off the "Vintage" mode if I'm using VCC in the process. At first it sounds great, but I also tend to filter more even if it's not needed.


You can certainly overdo things. But workflow wise such EQ/channel strip designs are indeed great.

[Lenticular]

After putting it through it's paces I don't think I'll be purchasing this.
I will say it never crashed once, very stable & thoughtfully laid out but that's about as far as it goes.

VCC has more of a vibe & Nebula/ Alex B beats them both.

[3ee]

The character of the voice recorded for the clip below...
...is it maybe real tape or Waves NLS?

Didn't test Waves NLC yet, that's way I'm asking.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I don't think that this is practical...

Here is why:
Let's take your usual consumer console, either a Mackie or a Behringer, maybe even Allan and Heith.

Most of these "cheap" devices do not work module based, but there are several channels soldered on to one board. Now if you overload a channel here, there is a huge chance you affect the others in the process. This is the nasty bleeding effect a lot of engineers try to evade.

A negative sideeffect of that "bleeding" (that some of you apparently want) is also ducking channels, or distorting them. Quinto pretty much implemented that with STRIPbus. Only that you have a certain control here.


Now... large scale consoles work module based. At least most of them. Meaning: each channel strip works individual and is connected to the full array (routed to the summing bus) in parallel through own means. Usually these channels are not connected unless you want them to. In theory we could talk about galvanic disconnection (which would be the best way possible), but in reality this doesn't happen (radiation, etc).

Here the channel differences make sense if you take a look at the whole module. A damaged resistor or a capacitor can mess with the whole channel. Or let's say the module wasn't properly installed, then you have additional noise and the liking. This is what Waves tried to pull off, and other firms/developers like Slate and AlexB (with modification of his own consoles) tried to evade. It can add some certain flavor, but I see it as damaged components that need to be fixed.


What you ask is a complete "console" built after. Which would mean you need a dedicated system. But we have that already! It's our host!

Our host is the most clean and most correct working tool that we have at our disposal. It is a tape machine and a console in one! You can't get any better than that.


The thing that we miss in this case however is the conversation from kinetic energy to electric energy and therefore bits and bytes. Stuff that let things sound alive. And here we talk about preamps and microphones. All with their dedicated frequency response, harmonic distortion (if the circuity demands it or does so on purpose) plus our more or less flat AD/DA's.

It is no weakspot whatsoever to just use a (simple) digital host like Cubase, Logic, Acid, FLStudio, Sonar, StudioONE, RECORD, Samplitude and how they are all called. If we want more flavour, we grasp for things that model analog devices such as certain EQ's, compressor, preamps, guitar amps, microphone modelers or in this case a console.


Really, in reality engineers around the globe tried to evade all he negative sideeffect of analog equipment. Now we scream for these tools again in digital form yet barely anyone realises what we have at our disposal already.

There were even A/B tests with passive summing modules (cables again), and the only "coloring" that happened here was due to the gain compensation of the preamp prior to the AD/DA again. That and the more finer resolution due to voltage rather than bits and bytes that literally no one can hear!

Forget the "blind tests" - there is no secret magic going on and a 20grand digital cable doesn't sound better than a properly built 20bucks DIY one.

Amen/Well put Compy dude and with common sense & not even a hint of the oil of snake

If I want a console sound then I just use a damned console/desk. Its alot easier than farting around with my host/hosts of choice. I want my host(s) to do what they do best and my hardware/analogue to do what it does best. Its so much simpler, Not trying to take away anything from developers and plug-ins which are aimed at digital analogue console/desk 'goodness' nor anyone whom uses them...But it is all just not for me personally. Im a simpleton, Aslong as it sounds good/works I could not care less but it has to be easy to intergrate into my workflow bottom line

All the best your way and to all as always

Dean

[@midnight]

Keep in mind that the SSL pack also tries to simulate a channel strip along with it's saturation.

No it doesn't.

[Sequent]

If I want a console sound then I just use a damned console/desk. Its alot easier than farting around with my host/hosts of choice. I want my host(s) to do what they do best and my hardware/analogue to do what it does best. Its so much simpler

I think part of where this trend began is that people no longer have consoles/desks or anything analog or maybe even not any hardware at all for that matter. For a lot of people it's all ITB. I'm sure the other part is, how many of us have an SSL4k sitting around? I know I don't!

[lightsfadelow]

+1 on all ITB. And before that all digital with an 01v and an ADAT

I think these kinds of emulations are the future. The workflow and capabilities of a DAW are just eons ahead of hardware and the sound is in some cases close enough and in some cases better (depending on the sound you're trying to achieve).

I've listened to interviews with respected mixing and mastering engineers who have given up outboard equipment completely.

The one exception is the input stage. You still need great musicians, great mics, good quality preamps, and please some degree of songwriting/music theory training!

[Compyfox]

VCC has more of a vibe & Nebula/ Alex B beats them both.

Well, VCC and AlexB both have Neve and SSL consoles. Waves only selling point IMO is the EMI TG12345. If they'd put int he Helios as well and reduce the price once in a while (like Slate does), it would certainly look more attractive.

If I want a console sound then I just use a damned console/desk. Its alot easier than farting around with my host/hosts of choice. ... Im a simpleton, Aslong as it sounds good/works I could not care less but it has to be easy to intergrate into my workflow bottom line

The thing is, the system is easy. The manuals are just confusing as hell and everyone says different things on how to use these tools correctly. This is where the "farting around" part takes place.

Noone takes the time anymore to learn tools correctly. It's just "slam on and be happy". Overdoing things is where it got us up until this point: overdriving a console on purpose, EQ several times before you print it back on tape, etc. The way to do everything ITB was a great step, but now that it is pretty much affordable for everyone and easily accessable as well, the essential knowledge of "how to do things right" fades away. To some this is a regress, but this is where we need such tools like VCC, NLS, STRIPbus, SATSON and Nebula the most.

Of course you can pull that all off with a simple (and by that I mean "simple") Volume Meter setup correctly additional to our host built in digital peak meters. We only have to learn one tools and not even a handful of rules. And then what? You learned how to do it right!

I think these kinds of emulations are the future. The workflow and capabilities of a DAW are just eons ahead of hardware and the sound is in some cases close enough and in some cases better (depending on the sound you're trying to achieve).

I can somewhat agree on that. Routing especially is way simpler within a DAW and the right tool (like EnergyXT or Bidule) than with hardware. But hardware still eats less CPU power and works longer than your every-day VST plugin.

I've listened to interviews with respected mixing and mastering engineers who have given up outboard equipment completely.

The one exception is the input stage. You still need great musicians, great mics, good quality preamps, and please some degree of songwriting/music theory training!

Agreed.

Keep in mind that the SSL pack also tries to simulate a channel strip along with it's saturation.

No it doesn't.

Er... care to elaborate? While taking a look at Waves SSL4k bundle, especially the G-Channel and E-Channel (also G-Equalizer), I see an "analog" switch just like Nomad Factory's British Bundle with the Vintage switch.

Doesn't that add additional saturation on top of the modeling of how the channel strip responds (EQ, gate, compressor)? Personally I think so - and that would mean you add twice the saturation.