KVR Audio

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:57 pm

I'm getting bored of a traditional DAW and track-by-track recording of pop/rock songs and switching to more experimental music. The choices are bewildering so I'd appreciate some recommendations about an affordable setup for making experimental music. My most important vision right now is to be able to record phrases (possibly with the help of footswitches so I can also record guitar), be able to put them to use immediately and apply effects on the fly.

I'm a bit weary of using the mouse so I need to be able to do some of this with actual buttons, pads, knobs, etc.

What comes to mind is Ableton Live (a bit expensive) and MIDI controllers (AKAI APC40, Novation Launchpad, Behringer BCR2000) but perhaps there are some other options. I have a vague idea that Korg Electribe (for making some beats on the fly) might be useful. Or is an iPad sufficient for this (but I'm anti-Apple, pro-Linux, and forced to use Windows cause Linux is still difficult to set up for audio).

Or maybe a modular environment (??)... There used to be EnergyXT but I didn't see much excitement in the forum just now (is it dead?).

Or maybe I should learn a programming environment (Puredata, SuperCollider, CSound, Processing, etc.).

I'm very confused and would love to hear opinions. Many thanks.

nay-seven · Post by **nay-seven** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:07 pm

If you 're looking for a modular and creative DAW , i can suggest you Usine, low price ( start with 39 € for the stage version) , you can create your own interface and work flow.

There's a grid mode to use tracks but you can switch to IB (Interface Builder) mode to have a better overview in Live situation.

Easy support of midi learn, OSC and more

check the link in my signature

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:05 am

Why not just experiment with setup...?

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:01 am

Trial-and-error is absolutely necessary to find the setup I am comfortable with, but I would like to hear opinions so I can begin to understand what are the more promising choices I should experiment with.

It's like a young guitar player buying compressor for his first pedal. That would be a huge disappointment. He needs a distortion, delay, wah, etc., not a compressor. Somebody needs to tell him that, that's what I'm asking for myself. Also I don't have endless money, so I can't keep on buying stuff and deciding it doesn't work (I tried and failed at linux audio, which would've been completely free).

wakax · Post by **wakax** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:18 am

for Linux you could go with Csound or better with PureData Extended.
thats enough for a good setup but requires a lot of learning and work ...

also for free you should try "ppooll" ( win and mac )
great modular experimental soundboard / lab made in Max.

for money you should consider:
NI Reaktor
Audiomulch
Plogue Bidule
Renoise
Max/MSP
Ableton Live

iPad has also some very good tools for experimental music
( some are one trick poney but are alot of fun )
you should check
Grain Science
iDensity
CSGrain
and many more ...

ofcourse if you have money you could go hardware
( too many options to talk about em here and now )

Nanakai · Post by **Nanakai** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:26 am

What do you have already?

Ableton Live is ideal because you can use the session view to interact with music non-linearly while still being able to capture your ideas on a track in the arrange view. The Suite instruments are OK, but you could easily get along with the cheapest version. Max4Live is a no-brainer for experimental music, if you can afford it. With devices like Looper and Buffer Shifter, you can make some pretty crazy sounds with limited interaction from whatever controller you get.

If you decide on Live, then some sort of session view interface is a must. I use the Launchpad and that's enough for me, but if you want a more hands-on interaction with your software, I suggest getting an APC40. You could get a keyboard interface, but in the pre-Moog era (so I've read), synthesists used less traditional interfaces like touch pads and pedals. With that in mind, you could pick up a Korg Nanopad for cheap and use the XY controller with the pads. Throw in some modular synth like VAZ Mod and you've got plenty of power.

Another option is to eliminate the computer altogether. Get a Meeblip, a microphone and a 4-track tape deck. It's more than some early pioneers had and you'd spend less than you would on software.

Rangtangtang · Post by **Rangtangtang** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:37 am

Those new inexpensive small analog korg boxes might be handy for experimenting. I built a few analog noise boxes and sampled them and loaded them into the sampler and that worked. It opened up a few possibilities to incorporate a few other sound sources. It's a little more organic than just relying on the computer. Far as software is concerned I suppose not a lot beats Native Instruiments Reaktor. Id like that one. Has anyone mentioned A-box2 for modular noise it is free now I think.

audiobot202 · Post by **audiobot202** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:02 am

There's a certain weirdness to talking about 'experimental' music as a genre. To my way of thinking, experimental music is really more about trying your own approaches and simply experimenting with creative processes. I realise that it may not be the most cost efficient answer, but artistry does not care about money.
I've lately gone back to an analog monophonic synth, a mixer and audiomulch. There's nothing new in that approach, but it's new for me, which makes it an experimental setup for my way of doing things.
You could be making traditional pop rock with a weird setup. Would it be called 'experimental' music? Probably not...but experimenting by nature is all down to the individual and does not have a signature sound.

D.H. Miltz · Post by **D.H. Miltz** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:11 am

rpm wrote:My most important vision right now is to be able to record phrases (possibly with the help of footswitches so I can also record guitar), be able to put them to use immediately and apply effects on the fly.

I'm a bit weary of using the mouse so I need to be able to do some of this with actual buttons, pads, knobs, etc.

I can't actually help with this, but I'm quoting it because people seem to be missing it and it seems like the heart of what you're asking.

nay-seven · Post by **nay-seven** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:12 am

+1
I agree with that, one of the best way to be creative is to break his habits !

clementshawes · Post by **clementshawes** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:14 am

I've recently come out of the computer and am using an MPC1000 (with JJOS2XL) as my sequencer running an Virus TI Desktop and a NanoZwerg - and I love it; though I am still coming back to Ableton to 'finish' tracks.

Depending on your specific needs, did you look at Renoise for Linix? There's a lot of success stories with that and a number of 'high-profile' users (for their genre at least). If your hardware is standard MIDI and you don't need a load of third-party applications to run them then I'd say Renoise is well worth a look as a DAW (Linux, Windows and Mac versions).
Renoise also has its attempt at MAX/MSP which will give you endless hours of experimenting I'm sure

My 2p's worth anyway

risome · Post by **risome** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:18 am

Livid controllers and Ableton LIVe

Nanakai · Post by **Nanakai** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:28 am

audiobot202 wrote:There's a certain weirdness to talking about 'experimental' music as a genre. To my way of thinking, experimental music is really more about trying your own approaches and simply experimenting with creative processes. I realise that it may not be the most cost efficient answer, but artistry does not care about money.
I've lately gone back to an analog monophonic synth, a mixer and audiomulch. There's nothing new in that approach, but it's new for me, which makes it an experimental setup for my way of doing things.
You could be making traditional pop rock with a weird setup. Would it be called 'experimental' music? Probably not...but experimenting by nature is all down to the individual and does not have a signature sound.

Very much agree.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:42 am

Try something like Plogue Bidule or Audiomulch for DAW

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:24 pm

Wow, so much material to research and think about. Thanks a lot!

I use "experimental" as a short-cut label. I'm really not interested in making music of a specific genre; whatever comes out, comes out, and people can call it whatever they want.

I agree with the tape-recorder approach; I've thought of it and might go that way because of its simplicity. We have so much more than the early pioneers but that abundance of choice ends up wasting my time, rather than helping me create. So with my original post, I intended to land on a few things that I would then lock myself into, and stop worrying about choices, but start creating.

So I will try Usine, Bidule, and all the other things mentioned. Thanks a lot! It will take a long time, but I will report back to benefit anyone else following a similar path.

Choices for experimental music setup