KVR Audio

1-2-Many · Post by **1-2-Many** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:23 pm

zircon wrote:Right, any non-official licensed Kontakt library will not load for more than 15 mins in Kontakt Player. So for example all of our products will only work in the full version of Kontakt. On the other hand, companies that have shelled out huge $$ for licensing the player, and dealing with NI's wait times, are able to distribute the Kontakt Player with their library.

The thing is, many samplers basically load Kontakt. Sample mapped, velocity, groups, that's the easy part. It's Kontakt scripting and all the super-complex modulations you can do that are just not replaceable.

RIght - I've always been underwhelmed with any kind of format import - from anyone. I doubt Halion4 (or anyone FTM) replicates the scripting within Kontak format. Last I tried, importing Ensoniq discs within Kontakt5 still sucked eggs

(Yes I used the standalone)

SB version of scripting is called MegaTrig "without the ahssle of pages of scripting files"

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:59 pm

zircon wrote:So for example all of our products will only work in the full version of Kontakt.

That's not strictly true!

Your stuff WILL work with the Player but with limitations ... not least of which, of course, is the time limit of 15 or 20 minutes before it conks out.

But a lot of my customers (somehow) manage to work within that limitation.

Cheers,

Stephen

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:01 pm

Nothing replicates Kontakt's scripting.

classic · Post by **classic** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:06 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:'becoming' ??

Kontakt's been the de facto standard since before Gigasampler died.

Thought the same" becoming????????????????"

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:13 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Nothing replicates Kontakt's scripting.

I'm no expert to judge and compare in an accurate way but MachV 3 script engine seems to be really powerfull.

As for synthesis it is more powerfull than Kontakt. As for the UI its a very interesting workflow too. They integrated the whole thing into a very clear GUI.

This said I use Kontakt for a lot of 3rd party libs so in a way yes Kontatkis the de facto standard.

To program my own instruments though I prefer the Halion UI, I never really clicked with the Kontakt UI, I find it much more easy to deal with large folder of samples in Halion also, and the macros/keyswitches are usually enough for me.

LtZ

precisionsound · Post by **precisionsound** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:26 pm

hollowsun wrote:
zircon wrote:So for example all of our products will only work in the full version of Kontakt.
That's not strictly true!

Your stuff WILL work with the Player but with limitations ... not least of which, of course, is the time limit of 15 or 20 minutes before it conks out.

But a lot of my customers (somehow) manage to work within that limitation.

Cheers,

Stephen

Interesting, so you can render the Kontakt Player playing into a wav file inside, for example, Cubase within the 15 min? I don't have the player because I have the full version so I never tried what the player can and can't do.
I thought that saving presets and rendering audio was blocked...

Lars

JoeCat · Post by **JoeCat** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:37 pm

classic wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:'becoming' ??

Kontakt's been the de facto standard since before Gigasampler died.
Thought the same" becoming????????????????"

I seriously wish I never used that word....

WaveAlchemy's latest:
16 sampler patches for Kontakt, EXS24, Halion & SFZ
And many of the music mags still distribute libraries in multiple formats but not as Kontakt instruments. There are still a lot of non-Kontakt users who limp by with DAW samplers. But - I'm seeing more Kontakt-only instruments than anything (outside of the plethora of loop libraries).

I think a lot of people who have been happy using libraries and DAW samplers may start moving towards scripted and more complex instruments with more velocity layers, round-robin, etc.. I'm wondering how long before "Kontakt Instrument" is the ONLY format for most devs.

Halion's a good example - lots of loyal Cubase users, but if they purchase Kontakt to take advantage of a greater library of Kontakt-only product, Halion won't be as much of an asset and Steinberg may roll over (as it appears Apple has with Logic/ESX24).

I could be wrong - still lots of people for whom just a few velocity layers is enough, but there's a lot to of value in a painstakingly-created sampled instrument. I'm happy with Live's sampler for 90% of my needs, but it looks hard to beat a full-featured app with scripting, dedicated instrument GUI, etc. like Kontakt for sampled bass, pianos, etc.

Recently picked up Puremagnetik's Microton (Mellotron sampled instrument), which is awesome and is sold as a Live Rack, Logic, and Kontakt instrument. They've been an Ableton partner for years, but there I suspect there will be less of them.

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:50 am

Lotuzia wrote:I'm no expert to judge and compare in an accurate way but MachV 3 script engine seems to be really powerfull.

As for synthesis it is more powerfull than Kontakt. As for the UI its a very interesting workflow too. They integrated the whole thing into a very clear GUI.

True. Mach V 3 could seriously kick NI's bottom. It looks excellent in so many ways.

The trouble with Mach V 3 is a Catch 22 situation, however...

Devs won't develop for it if users aren't migrating to it and users won't migrate to it if devs aren't developing for it!

And given the domination of Kontakt, it's a big ask to expect users to migrate from one, very popular platform at not inconsiderable expense to something of an unknown!

Cheers,

Stephen

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:58 am

zircon wrote:The thing is, many samplers basically load Kontakt. Sample mapped, velocity, groups, that's the easy part. It's Kontakt scripting and all the super-complex modulations you can do that are just not replaceable.

Can other samplers open NKI files and then simply disregard the extra data?

Steinberg confirmed to me that HaLion Sonic SE can open Steinberg created HaLion banks but not banks created by anyone else.

precisionsound · Post by **precisionsound** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 am

A better deal from UVI to the developers could be a good idea...
If they like to take market shares from NI they have to give developers a reason to develop for their platform and I have not seen that yet, sorry.
UVI have to go back to the drawing table and do some rethinking.

Lars

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:03 am

hollowsun wrote:The trouble with Mach V 3 is a Catch 22 situation, however...

Devs won't develop for it if users aren't migrating to it and users won't migrate to it if devs aren't developing for it!

It includes some really deep libraries out of the box and I could see someone choosing Mach Five for those alone. It becomes a bit like Omnisphere in that case. Also, it's pretty much a must-have for any UVI fan.

1-2-Many · Post by **1-2-Many** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:05 am

hollowsun wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:I'm no expert to judge and compare in an accurate way but MachV 3 script engine seems to be really powerfull.

As for synthesis it is more powerfull than Kontakt. As for the UI its a very interesting workflow too. They integrated the whole thing into a very clear GUI.
True. Mach V 3 could seriously kick NI's bottom. It looks excellent in so many ways.

The trouble with Mach V 3 is a Catch 22 situation, however...

Devs won't develop for it if users aren't migrating to it and users won't migrate to it if devs aren't developing for it!

And given the domination of Kontakt, it's a big ask to expect users to migrate from one, very popular platform at not inconsiderable expense to something of an unknown!

Cheers,

Stephen

Agreed. I was going to respond to his post, "Oh yeah, I forgot about Mach5....Maybe that's because nobody develops for Mach5"

This reminds like so many other format wars - where the superior product/technology often loses to the more popular.

precisionsound · Post by **precisionsound** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:26 am

BETA was better that VHS, VHS won...In the old Video days.
UVI could change the deal to developers and make a difference, they have the power if they want to use it, I am watching...
Greed is _no_ good! Specially if you like to "kill" the "Nig Ivil"
The move that makes the giant stumble and fall is the unexpected move and UVI is in a position to make a difference…

Lars

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:29 am

precisionsound wrote:A better deal from UVI to the developers could be a good idea...

One could say much the same for NI. Their licensing costs are prohibitively expensive for the smaller developer.

precisionsound · Post by **precisionsound** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:45 am

hollowsun wrote:
precisionsound wrote:A better deal from UVI to the developers could be a good idea...
One could say much the same for NI. Their licensing costs are prohibitively expensive for the smaller developer.

True!
That's why UVI have a chance to make a difference, but I have the figures here and they are not a pleasant reading if you are a small developers like Precisionsound...

UVI has to realize that they are small also, way under NI and they have to make offers that apply to developers like us if they like to take market shares.

Lars

Kontakt Becoming New Standard?