Firewire Question

[Ether Trogg]

To use firewire you obviously have to be careful selecting the right mb as well, and my Dell Vostro didn't like it very much.

That could be part of the problem right there - Custom / from parts build versus Dell/HP/etc,etc.

@Camsr
"You need a well designed motherboard for audio. Stay away from big box retailers."

Bingo - I totally agree.
I have a friend who DJ's and produces a lot and he seems to go through laptops like changes of clothes. he keeps going with retail pre-built systems and they always seem to end up with some severe issues with audio work.

It's far better to invest in something build SPECIFICALLY for what your needs are rather than trying to make a standard big box fit your needs. Generally speaking, PC's that fit a KVR's needs differ from those of a home office user or gamer. Thats why I went the route of a system desgined for one purpose - hardcore audio work

@ Jtiis
"I hoped to learn that from KVR folk rather than by taking their time."

I totally understand this - I was hesitant to contact support originally, not only because the issue occured so far after the purchase date, but also not wanting to waste their time. It was actually the first service call I've ever made in my life, as I normally resolve all my own PC issues. Independance is usually a virtue, but I dont regret breaking down and contacting them.

If you haven't already, give them a quick call! Even if they can't resolve the issue, they can at least point you in the right direction. If you still have the ADK Quick Support application installed, you can get help really fast.

Hope the issues work out

[jtiis]

Yep, ADK support remoted in, changed a few settings, updated a few items, did a few reboots, ran a few tests and solved the problem. That's money we'll spent (as opposed to an off the shelf hope it works wannabe with no live and accessible support)...now, happily making music... Thanks ADK!

[lfm]

To use firewire you obviously have to be careful selecting the right mb as well, and my Dell Vostro didn't like it very much.

That could be part of the problem right there - Custom / from parts build versus Dell/HP/etc,etc.

@Camsr
"You need a well designed motherboard for audio. Stay away from big box retailers."

I have now a Dell OptiPlex(2.8G, XP 32bit) that I used for audio for 6 years. Not a single issue. RME Hammerfall 9636 internal card.

I have the Dell Vostro now, and not a single issue since I went internal card either. RME HDSP 9632 and addon 4 inputs.

So if using reliable technology for audio you can get the work done with no hassle whatsoever - even with stock computers.

RME Zero Cpu technology running audio. All cpu left for running applications and plugins.

That is kind of the essense of what my remarks were about in this thread.

I'm sure firewire works - but you need custom built stuff where every single part is carefully selected for this job.

And I wonder if one should have big studio where everything is rackbased as well, and all cables and stuff are fixed and tied, all microphones are handled through patchbays so you never plug in or pull out anything directly from audio interface and move it etc.

But it need not be that complicated.

[camsr]

It's true. The northbridge/southbridge is usually the problem. Aftermarket MOBOs have settings to disable stuff, while big boxes do not. The biggest culprit in high latency is power states. Your mobo must be ready to work, or there is latency in activating something. Some retail computers won't let you adjust this.

And for the record, TI firewire isn't always the problem. I have an LSI chip on an ASUS mobo for firewire, to an Edirol FA-66 which uses a BridgeCo microchip, and all is well. The correct implementation is required, and too many manufacturers cut corners.

[lfm]

It's true. The northbridge/southbridge is usually the problem. Aftermarket MOBOs have settings to disable stuff, while big boxes do not. The biggest culprit in high latency is power states. Your mobo must be ready to work, or there is latency in activating something. Some retail computers won't let you adjust this.

Spring 2010 getting my new daw I was actually talking to companies specializing in building audio machines/daws. At least to compare prices with stock computers.

But they refused to deliver anything x64 which they felt was not needed, and not tested, and so on. They actually called me a - missionary - asking for this?

For these companies there are so much at stake - so it also becomes a hurdle to climb. If something does not work for customer they will be blaimed for it - their whole reputation is at stake.

I felt the x64 machines has been on the market that long, all cpus were x64 compatible, there have been daws like Sonar since 2006 providing x64 versions, quite a few vendors had x64 version of their plugins as well.

I was ready for the plunge - but they dared not take the risk.

So it's not all for the good buying from these specialized companies - you might risk buying old and safe solutions - not the very best of today, opening new abilities for your work.

Buying a new machine you kind of want it to last 6-8 years or something like that. And buying something that already feels like old is not getting the best solution for the money.

I saw a vast improvement and ability to run as many samplers as needed in a project without hitting any ceiling. Without the need for sampler to support DFD of various kinds. All up in memory and done.

That's my reasoning anyway.

[camsr]

When you look at how much gear is integrated with the PC, you see that it is all 32-bit. 64-bit gear is few and far between. The original Nord Modular is a good example. Some things will never see the 64-bit day, hence the use of 32-bit PCs for audio. And as always, the more gear, the less need for the PC at all.

[lfm]

When you look at how much gear is integrated with the PC, you see that it is all 32-bit. 64-bit gear is few and far between. The original Nord Modular is a good example. Some things will never see the 64-bit day, hence the use of 32-bit PCs for audio. And as always, the more gear, the less need for the PC at all.

For a while being in despair I looked seriously at going back to portastudio. Really a troublefree environment for me and plenty musicmaking.

Had a couple of casette portas from Fostex and Tascam in the 80's, and then digital HDD studios a couple too in the 20's.

Spoiled with physical faders and stuff from portastudios still looking for controllers that are good.

But now having a troublefree PC one wonder if to go there - smells trouble gain kind of.

[risome]

Pre-sales they confirmed it adn the Focusrite would play nice so, until proven otherwise I'm taking ADKs word for it. They tend to know their stuff.

Sales - they just as often recommend stuff they want to get rid of.

Overall, USB is greatly improved and worked on for every new generation of computers.

Firewire is pretty much forgotten and has not improved anything.

I struggled with testing firewire when buying a new computer 2 years ago(i7 2.6). Three month of testing different firewire interfaces, cables, drivers and I don't know what else.

4 different interface cards, 3 TI, one VIA, three PCI Express and one PCI, three brands of cables.

Summary of these tests:
1. Too much wasted cpu
I could not get lower than 7% cpu overall(20% one core of 8 ), just keeping audio up. No software running.

I could very well use that cpu for something better, like running more tracks and plugins.

2. Connectors are really poor - really sensitive to tiny bends and it all stops working. It's really old technology as I see it.

USB and network connectors you can abuse quite a bit without any problems.
I had a tiny bend when table was against the wall - and that was enough for firewire to stop working.

3. Nothing is improved on this interface over the years. Yes, there are 400 and 800 Mhz buses.

But one interesting thing was that a SP on XP really shut down FW to 100 Mhz. And there is a fix to set it back to 400, but this was strongly not recommended by Microsoft and only if you had problems with 100Mhz limit.

That kind of says it all - it's shaky. I got plenty BSOD running 400 mode.

I would really swap to USB stuff instead. In the end you will get this firewire running I'm sure, but it's really a dead end, and the next computer you get might put you back to square one again.

I went for internal RME cards, but if needing external I would get USB based.[/quote


Firewire interfaces are not forgotten and high end audio interfaces are all firewire .USB will crap itself with multi channel audio .Go into any digital based professional studio bro you wont see USB audio interfaces.It isnt shaky its stable and professional. Been using them for years with low latency and no problems.I dont know where you get your facts from my friend
Cheers

[BertKoor]

Anyway, let's put the USB-FireWire flamewar to rest right here, and let's hope the issue of the OP is a simple matter of replacing the cable. I'm sure ADK can take care of these things.

And the flame war in this thread did stop indeed.

Yep, ADK support remoted in, changed a few settings, updated a few items, did a few reboots, ran a few tests and solved the problem. That's money we'll spent (as opposed to an off the shelf hope it works wannabe with no live and accessible support)...now, happily making music... Thanks ADK!

So the issue of the OP is solved.

Firewire interfaces are not forgotten and high end audio interfaces are all firewire .USB will crap itself with multi channel audio .Go into any digital based professional studio bro you wont see USB audio interfaces.It isnt shaky its stable and professional. Been using them for years with low latency and no problems.I dont know where you get your facts from my friend

Now why did you put more fuel on the flame war? I thought we were done already...

[risome]

Didn't mean my post as a flame just stating facts .No ill will meant .Night Night

[lfm]

Firewire interfaces are not forgotten and high end audio interfaces are all firewire .USB will crap itself with multi channel audio .Go into any digital based professional studio bro you wont see USB audio interfaces.It isnt shaky its stable and professional. Been using them for years with low latency and no problems.I dont know where you get your facts from my friend
Cheers

I don't think you managed to read all the posts, really?

Anyway - my experience was from 3 month of tweaking and changing gear.

And I think a big studio install is rackbased and has cables tied everywhere, and the only place they plugin cables are in patchbays.

I would go internal cards from Lynx and RME (ADAT/AES/EBU) to build 20+ channel studio. So claiming that big studios only use firewire would not be the case - there is better technology for the job.

Just read through the whole lot if you are up to it.

And I don't think exchanging views means flaming....