Ohm Force plug-ins going 64bit

[Fire Sledge - Ohm Force]

I think most companies sell only multi-platform versions ("pack"-equivalent) of their plug-ins. Selling single licenses seems not to be the standard. We made this system to propose an affordable price range. Perhaps we shouldn't had to?

Software pricing is something completely arbitrary, anyway. I think our pricing policy is quite consistent, as khanyz summed it up. Now if the 64-bit version is not needed, you don't have to buy it, and nobody's going to ask you to justify yourself.

[aMUSEd]

I'm sure I used to have access to more than just the Windows version though. I know I used to have access to the Performer version of Symptohm at one time as well as the Full version but now all I can see is the 32 bit full version. Has my license been downgraded or something?

Isn't the performer edition freeware?

Apparently it is now, it wasn't when I bought Melohman

[sin night]

Well, 64 bit version is not rarely a paid upgrade... it makes sense it is from a developper point of view... maybe the "pay for 64 bit if you don't have a multiformat license" is not a great solution from a marketing point of view... As a user, I think I'm more prone to upgrade something if there are new functionalities (as new filters and things like that) instead of 64 bit support alone, which is something everybody feels like "why should I buy that mixer again, just to be able of using xlr's instead of jack"... but this is marketing, as 64 bit is indeed a new functionality, and it's very important too.


Is it really that different from when you buy a new version of the software with lots of new functionalities you don't need and you won't probably use, just because you want the 64 bit support? From a psychological point of view it's easier to spend money on such upgrades, but at the end the reason why you're paying is only 64 bit support.



As a customer, I'm never happy when I have to spend money instead of receiving for free (who's happy? ), so I probably would be a bit hungry if I had a single format license instead of a multiformat; but the developpers have all the right to charge for this upgrade, it makes sense, so I follow what the mind says and not what my feelings suggest me.


Just my opinion, of course.

[jensa]

This:

We made this system to propose an affordable price range. Perhaps we shouldn't had to?

... and this:

Software pricing is something completely arbitrary, anyway.

Well, if it's arbitrary, how did you come to the conclusion that your price range is affordable, and charging €20 for an "upgrade" to 64-bit with absolutely no added features or skins, to quite old plugins?

Now if the 64-bit version is not needed, you don't have to buy it, and nobody's going to ask you to justify yourself.

Hm, to me it sounds more like "We don't sell that many plugins anymore but we can make some money out of the current customers." Am I completely wrong coming to that conclusion?

Besides, I guess you will incorporate quite a lot of the existing code base of these plugins into your new DAW and it won't for sure be 32-bit will they?

I've got the whole Ohmforce bundle (so I'm not affected by this), love the sounds, dislike the GUIs, but I don't feel this really is a good choice marketing wise. Maybe it won't affect you at all, maybe it will. Just my opinion but do please correct me if I'm wrong.

Good luck anyhow.

[jensa]

as 64 bit is indeed a new functionality, and it's very important too.

If this is new functionality, what would NONE new functionality be? A new installer? A different name on the plugin? The sound is exactly the same, the interface is exactly the same. Going 64-bit is a way for OhmForce to future proof their products and not miss any potential sales and I think it's bad marketing to charge the old customers (the fans!) for an "upgrade" within the same format, since they are discerning between formats in their price model. IMO of course.

[hibidy]

I think most companies sell only multi-platform versions ("pack"-equivalent) of their plug-ins. Selling single licenses seems not to be the standard. We made this system to propose an affordable price range. Perhaps we shouldn't had to?

Software pricing is something completely arbitrary, anyway. I think our pricing policy is quite consistent, as khanyz summed it up. Now if the 64-bit version is not needed, you don't have to buy it, and nobody's going to ask you to justify yourself.

Why am I not surprised with this post

[hibidy]

@jensa: Agree with much of what you say (but too lazy to cut/paste from two posts )

And I'll add, seems kinda stuck up to me.

[jensa]

@jensa: Agree with much of what you say (but too lazy to cut/paste from two posts )

He he. Though, I probably mean something else since I feel it quite hard to really pinpoint what I think in (non-)plain English.

[burkek]

Count me in as another customer that won't be paying for a 64bit update. Don't need multiple formats either.

KEv

[VitaminD]

Same here.. disappointing.

[whyterabbyt]

Tyical KVR whinging. Ohmforce started off by offering their plugins in all formats, but got whinging about the price from folk saying that they 'dont need' extra formats. So OhmForce basically try to do those folk a favour, and offer a cheaper option that allows you one single format at a discount. And of course that results in the usual professional complainers bitching that they don't get the same benefits as people who paid the full price.

[AKJ]

Tyical KVR whinging. Ohmforce started off by offering their plugins in all formats, but got whinging about the price from folk saying that they 'dont need' extra formats. So OhmForce basically try to do those folk a favour, and offer a cheaper option that allows you one single format at a discount. And of course that results in the usual professional complainers bitching that they don't get the same benefits as people who paid the full price.

I believe you did not get all the arguments right:

1. 64 bit VST is a "bit-flavour" within the same plugin format. (and, as far as I know, there is also only one sdk. I understand that in practice creating a 64 bit dll from a 32 bit codebase might be a little work, but theoretically you just have to recompile)
2. the plugin is quite old and to keep up with the competition ohmforce needs to create 64 bit. I am ready to pay for an sound and feature wise enhanced version that comes in 32+64 bit, but not for just offering 64 bit.
3. it does not create a good spirit even if it were justified. so what is better for ohmforce: make their customers happy so that they will buy again or disappoint them so that tthey are lost customers?

cheers, akj

[khanyz]

1. 64 bit VST is a "bit-flavour" within the same plugin format. (and, as far as I know, there is also only one sdk. I understand that in practice creating a 64 bit dll from a 32 bit codebase might be a little work, but theoretically you just have to recompile)

It's not just a recompile as optimisations are based upon variable types and sizes. Such values as memory offsets and bit operations are set based upon a fixed word length. If you don't hardcode these, then they are not optimised. If you change the wordlength (to 64bit) you need to change these and reassess the optimisations. Then there's the fact that 32-bit and 64-bit are different instrucations sets, so any assembly you use also needs to be checked and possible redone.

Yes, you can all do this at the compiler level, with MACROS and Conditional compilation, but then you have to stick with language (C/Delphi whatever) code and libraries. These are meant for generic/general use and are not optimised for real-time, audio use.

So basically, you know nothing about this.

2. the plugin is quite old and to keep up with the competition ohmforce needs to create 64 bit. I am ready to pay for an sound and feature wise enhanced version that comes in 32+64 bit, but not for just offering 64 bit.

So when/if they develop VST3 ot AAX versions, since they will look and sound the same, they should be free also?

3. it does not create a good spirit even if it were justified. so what is better for ohmforce: make their customers happy so that they will buy again or disappoint them so that tthey are lost customers?

Or maybe, in these hard times, the company need to be paid for the time it spent working on the 64-bit versions and might stop if they don't. Where would the customers be then?

[whyterabbyt]

I believe you did not get all the arguments right:

And I believe I wasnt making an argument, just stating a simple home truth.

1. 64 bit VST is a "bit-flavour" within the same plugin format. (and, as far as I know, there is also only one sdk. I understand that in practice creating a 64 bit dll from a 32 bit codebase might be a little work, but theoretically you just have to recompile)

Asserting that such a thing as an imaginary 'bit-flavour' somehow changes what you bought retrospectively is semantic wriggling. It doesnt change the situation. You got what you bought. If you want something more than that, the original option to get something more than that has not changed, and is not new.

2. the plugin is quite old and to keep up with the competition ohmforce needs to create 64 bit. I am ready to pay for an sound and feature wise enhanced version that comes in 32+64 bit, but not for just offering 64 bit.

Then don't pay for it. End of discussion.

3. it does not create a good spirit even if it were justified. so what is better for ohmforce: make their customers happy so that they will buy again or disappoint them so that tthey are lost customers?

You're assuming the majority of their customers took the cheap option and now think they have an automatic entitlement to other versions. I disagree, more people will have the pack, or worked it out, than you give credit for.
Of course it doesnt 'create a good spirit' amongst the professional whingers but I reckon they'd rather shave $20 off the cost of something so they can whine when their decisions have an impact. They'd find something to whine about anyway.

[LeVzi]

I think most companies sell only multi-platform versions ("pack"-equivalent) of their plug-ins. Selling single licenses seems not to be the standard. We made this system to propose an affordable price range. Perhaps we shouldn't had to?

Software pricing is something completely arbitrary, anyway. I think our pricing policy is quite consistent, as khanyz summed it up. Now if the 64-bit version is not needed, you don't have to buy it, and nobody's going to ask you to justify yourself.

The 64bit is needed, as I don't use a 32bit DAW anymore and you hadn't done the 64bit version of the plug-in until now, yet the plug-in remains the same, there is nothing new added to it, it's not a version 2, yet unlike pretty much every other developer , you charge €20 just for the 64bit version.

I think it's pretty pathetic tbh, and I'd like to know your license transfer options, as i'd sooner dump it and get something that is 64bit supported, and support a dev that cares a bit more and does't try to rip off it's userbase.