Ohm Force plug-ins going 64bit

[khanyz]

Either way, maybe I am just used to developers such as D16 who recently updated most of their plug-ins to 64bit, amongst other devs, releasing 64bit updates free to current users.

And you have the equivalent of a single, or multi, format license with D16? That would be multi, since that's all they do. So you get a free update from D16, with a multi license. Just like who? Ohm something.

[AKJ]

when you develop code and do it well you anticipate that things might change. so when you start coding a 32 bit plugin when 64 bit is already a reality and you are wise you do it that that a port later will be easy. I do not know anything about the codebase of Ohmforce. Maybe it is great. I am just reactiong to the arguments saying: charging for 64 bit is justified because of the large effort. If it were true that it is such a large effort, it is also true that the codebase might be suboptimal...

[AKJ]

let's just look at the competion. For example VariSaturator is just 49 usd. As a Voxengo customer I even get a large discount on it when ordering. It comes in Win VST 32 and 64 bit, VST Mac and AU. So If I did not already own it: for about the same price Ohmforce is charging for an Ohmicide pack upgrade I would get a licence of VariSaturator. And I would rate VariSaturator in the same quality range.

[whyterabbyt]

when you develop code and do it well you anticipate that things might change. so when you start coding a 32 bit plugin when 64 bit is already a reality and you are wise you do it that that a port later will be easy.

You are aware that most Ohmforce plugins date back at least 7 or 8 years? 64-bit Windows and OSX were not on the commercial horizon, let alone 64-bit DAWs.

[khanyz]

when you develop code and do it well you anticipate that things might change. so when you start coding a 32 bit plugin when 64 bit is already a reality and you are wise you do it that that a port later will be easy. I do not know anything about the codebase of Ohmforce. Maybe it is great. I am just reactiong to the arguments saying: charging for 64 bit is justified because of the large effort. If it were true that it is such a large effort, it is also true that the codebase might be suboptimal...

Or optimised for 32-bit, which would be different from the optimisations for 64-bit. You wouldn't optimise for 64-bit until you we're ready to develop the software for release.

But we are getting away from the point. This is mainly a licensing issue, which boils down to are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the VST the same. If they are, then you could get them under the single license, in not, only the pack.

IMO, they are not since; even if some of the DSP code is the same (i.e. 64-bit processing), any assembly and the interface code (to the format, OS/hardware etc) will be significantly different.

[whyterabbyt]

let's just look at the competion. For example VariSaturator is just 49 usd. As a Voxengo customer I even get a large discount on it when ordering. It comes in Win VST 32 and 64 bit, VST Mac and AU. So If I did not already own it: for about the same price Ohmforce is charging for an Ohmicide pack upgrade I would get a licence of VariSaturator. And I would rate VariSaturator in the same quality range.

well that's compelling. someone different does something different, ergo your argument is proven. that's quite literally the finest argument ive ever seen at KVR, congratulations.

next stop; lamborghini spare parts should be cheaper because skodas are less expensive than lamborghinis.

[Ivory_Force]

Hi all,

i'm one of the Ohm Force guys. We've kept a consistent price policy over the years, and there's nothing new with the 64 bit port.

If you consider the VST format alone, we've had several versions : Windows 32 bit, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X PowerPC, Mac OS X Intel 32 bit... and now Mac OS X Intel 64 bit, and Windows 64 bit. Most of the users using the Power PC, for example, have switched to the full version years ago, and can now use the 64 bit version without any additional cost.

You could extend this debate to the Mac versus Windows VST version. No additional functionalities between the two platforms, but still some additional cost.

I can understand some users are frustrated, but i hope they acknowledge there is some additional work required to add the support to 64 bit. Not that our libraries are not thought to be as portable as possible — heck, we've supported Motorola processor and Intel right from the beginning — but there is some work we can't avoid.

To give you an idea, all the inline assembler we've written for the most optimized procedures wouldn't work anymore. We've had to switch to intrinsics (and make more tests). Then, we've had to write a new installer because ours was not working very well with 64 bit Windows. Additionally, we've had to switch from VST 2 to VST 2.4 (VST 2 SDK does not support 64 bit). And it goes on.

Basically, the idea behind the single license versus the full is to have an [even more] affordable price for people who don't need many versions. The full version is better suited on the long run and help us covering the additional costs of maintenance.

Companies have different prices policies, and i'm sure more of our customers upgrading to 64 bit have willingly paid for the upgrade of various components (be it a new computer, a new OS, a new host). It happens Microsoft does sell both versions of Windows 7 (32 and 64 bit) separately, and that the 64 bit support of various hosts have usually come with a new paying version, and part of this upgrade fee covers the costs of the 64 bit port.

Jérôme

[LeVzi]

Either way, maybe I am just used to developers such as D16 who recently updated most of their plug-ins to 64bit, amongst other devs, releasing 64bit updates free to current users.

And you have the equivalent of a single, or multi, format license with D16? That would be multi, since that's all they do. So you get a free update from D16, with a multi license. Just like who? Ohm something.

So why sell the single license at all ? Because it's a discounted way to get the plug-in what you want right ?

I wanted the windows version and the windows version only , so I paid for the single license. They bring out a windows 64bit version, and charge €20 for it additional. Fine, thats their choice. It's not a different format, and splitting hairs over how it is, doesn't wash. A different format is AU or RTAS or VST, not the 32 or 64bit version.

But then I am lucky, as D16 did give 64bit updates free, and I use that. But I would like to cut or sell the dead wood in my VST collection. What is Ohmforce's license transfer policy ?

[AKJ]

when you develop code and do it well you anticipate that things might change. so when you start coding a 32 bit plugin when 64 bit is already a reality and you are wise you do it that that a port later will be easy.

You are aware that most Ohmforce plugins date back at least 7 or 8 years? 64-bit Windows and OSX were not on the commercial horizon, let alone 64-bit DAWs.

windows is 64 bit exists since october 25 2001, so that more than 10 years back. sonar (which I use) is 64 bit since 2005: 7 years back.

edit: btw, cakewalk gives both version 32 and 64 versions to their users: without extra cost (and I am quite sure it took them a lot more work to have a 64 version and very few users needing/wanting desperately it at that time)

[AKJ]

let's just look at the competion. For example VariSaturator is just 49 usd. As a Voxengo customer I even get a large discount on it when ordering. It comes in Win VST 32 and 64 bit, VST Mac and AU. So If I did not already own it: for about the same price Ohmforce is charging for an Ohmicide pack upgrade I would get a licence of VariSaturator. And I would rate VariSaturator in the same quality range.

well that's compelling. someone different does something different, ergo your argument is proven. that's quite literally the finest argument ive ever seen at KVR, congratulations.

next stop; lamborghini spare parts should be cheaper because skodas are less expensive than lamborghinis.

As I use Ohmicide (for saturation) VariSaturator is very well comparable. And actually I do not know for sure which one would be the skoda and which the lamborghini.

ps: Actually, also in cars it is not quite clear which is better. if you want to waste money and drive fast: get the lamborghini. if you want to save the environment: take the skoda (or do not drive cars at all).

[whyterabbyt]

windows is 64 bit exists since october 25 2001

Yeah, well you'd have been be paying your $20 for that Itanium version of your plugin too. Although there wasnt a single DAW to run it on that was ever compiled for Itanium.

As for the x64 architecture that everyone in the world who isnt running an obscure server farm is using, thats April 25, 2005

Hence me referring to plugins 'at least 7 or 8 years' old.

Clue : I said 'not on the commercial horizon' for a reason.

[AKJ]

ps: I don't think whyterabbyt & co you are doing Ohmforce a favour in defending it the way you do.

And I guess all is said. they are free to charge and they did it. but I am free not to pay and I will not. Actually, I was intending to buy another product of them, but now they lost me as a customer.

[whyterabbyt]

As I use Ohmicide (for saturation) VariSaturator is very well comparable.

How do you get 4-band bitcrushing out of VS?

[AKJ]

windows is 64 bit exists since october 25 2001

Yeah, well you'd have been be paying your $20 for that Itanium version of your plugin too. Although there wasnt a single DAW to run it on that was ever compiled for Itanium.

As for the x64 architecture that everyone in the world who isnt running an obscure server farm is using, thats April 25, 2005

Hence me referring to plugins 7 or 8 years old.

Clue : I said 'not on the commercial horizon' for a reason.

the commercial horizon arises with the platform. The day when microsoft is offering a 128 bit windows you can take it for sure that sooner or later all windows software will have to be portet to 128 bit to stay competitive (not matter if it makes sense for your application or not). So that means: on that very day 128 bit is on the commercial horizon.

[AKJ]

As I use Ohmicide (for saturation) VariSaturator is very well comparable.

How do you get 4-band bitcrushing out of VS?

I do not care for 4 bands. actually, I would much prefer a one band version. It saves the time of switching off the extra bands.