Ohm Force plug-ins going 64bit

[khanyz]

khanyz, what if OhmForce would change their mind because of existing customer discontent and give it away to existing customers to keep folks happy? Would you become quiet then or would you argue towards a raise of price? Or would you say "battle lost" and move forward?

I have enough excitement in my life and I don't consider KVR exciting. I do, however, consider it a place to learn and it should be a place to be fair, to both developers and customers.

I did not consider the few customers' stance as fair, but mearly moaning at not being able to get the new shiny. I've put forward the case why it shouldn't be free and I haven't read anything reasonable as to why it should.

Since Ohm Force clarified their position, I haven't mentioned it again as they are speaking for themselves. You will note, that what they said confirmed my conjecture, which was based on my professional experience.

If Ohm Force want to change their position, that is up to them. But it doesn't change mine which is:

If you buy software with a clear, set restriction, you can then complain about it but don't expect it to change just because you want it to. If you go into any deal with part of it based on hope, you can't even complain as it's just dumb.

Now if people want to start making a commercial argument for back-dated change of terms, then I'm all ears (well eyes actually).

[jensa]

super common ? seriously ? i cant take you seriously if you spin what im saying like that.

i said charging for 64bit upgrades is "more common than those complaining are willing to admit"
nothing more and nothing less! please dont intentionally misrepresent what im saying again.

What? You wrote exactly that: "but when it comes to super common complaints like the one being discussed here (64 bit charge)"

I don't intentionally misrepresent what you wrote. As English is not my primary language, I might have misunderstood you but I still try to understand how that could possibly be something else than what you wrote. But if you say so...

...and to answer your question. yes! those developers who have charged and may charge in the future for 64 bit upgrades have done so within the same format. i mean of course.

Obviously yes, IF they charge they do charge. But please give me numerous examples since I don't think it's common at all. This is the second time I've come across it from around 50 different vendors I've bought plugins from.

[LeVzi]

khanyz, what if OhmForce would change their mind because of existing customer discontent and give it away to existing customers to keep folks happy? Would you become quiet then or would you argue towards a raise of price? Or would you say "battle lost" and move forward?

I have enough excitement in my life and I don't consider KVR exciting. I do, however, consider it a place to learn and it should be a place to be fair, to both developers and customers.

I did not consider the customer stance as fair, but mearly moaning at not being able to get the new shiny. I've put forward the case why it shouldn't be free and I haven't read anything reasonable as to why it should.

Since Ohm Force clarified there position, I haven't mentioned it again as they are speaking for themselves. You will note, that what they said confirmed by assumption, which were based on my considerable experience.

If Ohm Force want to change their position, that is up to them. But it doesn't change mine which is:

If you buy software with a clear, set restriction, you can then complain about it but don't expect it to change just because you want it to. If you go into any deal with part of it based on hope, you can't even complain as it's just dumb.

Now if people want to start making a commercial argument for back-dated change of terms, then I'm all ears (well eyes actually).

It's not "New shiny" as you put it. It's your interpretation of what is deemed a new format. I don't deem 64bit of a VST plugin a new format, its just an update. If I wanted AU instead of VST, thats a new format.

[jensa]

If Ohm Force want to change their position, that is up to them. But it doesn't change mine which is:

If you buy software with a clear, set restriction, you can then complain about it but don't expect it to change just because you want it to. If you go into any deal with part of it based on hope, you can't even complain as it's just dumb.

I'm with you here except for I don't think people do expect it to change, at least not I. They would like it to change though. I do find a sound discussion about these things is good in general. Like you have done together with whyterabbyt and AKJ. What I don't find sound is the "meta complainers" asking people to shut up just because the company is always right. I don't really understand them at all. Luckily there haven't been that many in this thread.

Now if people want to start making a commercial argument for back-dated change of terms, then I'm all ears (well eyes actually).

[jensa]

I even gave away some of my time and beta tested two of their new 64-bit plugins. If they would have told me they would use my services for free and then charge people I might have done otherwise. Ha ha. Nah, it doesn't matter. Enjoy the plugs guys.

[ChiTown24]

super common ? seriously ? i cant take you seriously if you spin what im saying like that.

i said charging for 64bit upgrades is "more common than those complaining are willing to admit"
nothing more and nothing less! please dont intentionally misrepresent what im saying again.

What? You wrote exactly that: "but when it comes to super common complaints like the one being discussed here (64 bit charge)"

I don't intentionally misrepresent what you wrote. As English is not my primary language, I might have misunderstood you but I still try to understand how that could possibly be something else than what you wrote. But if you say so...

...and to answer your question. yes! those developers who have charged and may charge in the future for 64 bit upgrades have done so within the same format. i mean of course.

Obviously yes, IF they charge they do charge. But please give me numerous examples since I don't think it's common at all. This is the second time I've come across it from around 50 different vendors I've bought plugins from.

you are unbelievable
i said the complaining when these charges arise was super common. and it is. and will continue to be. because people who spend time on forums love to complain.

you then implied that i said charges for 64 bit upgrades were "super common" when that was obviously not what i said, english being your first language or not i clearly said the charges were more common than the complainers were willing to admit.

i think your just trolling at this stage and every time you have replied to me you have spun what ive said or misrepsented it and im sorry but i dont believe this is a language barrier thing

good day to you!

[jensa]

you are unbelievable
i said the complaining when these charges arise was super common. and it is. and will continue to be. because people who spend time on forums love to complain.

you then implied that i said charges for 64 bit upgrades were "super common" when that was obviously not what i said, english being your first language or not i clearly said the charges were more common than the complainers were willing to admit.

i think your just trolling at this stage and every time you have replied to me you have spun what ive said or misrepsented it and im sorry but i dont believe this is a language barrier thing

good day to you!

Oh dear ChiTown24. Stand by what you are writing in CLEAR TEXT and please don't be such a moron next time our paths cross. Accusing me of trolling... well, I tried to be civilized. From now on you're on my ignore list.

[jsp1979]

@ChiTown24: You're making a big jump to accuse Jensa of intentionally warping your words.

people will complain when asked to pay an upgrade fee even though such a charge is more common then they are willing to admit

That's the phrase in question. You claim that an upgrade for a 64-bit charge is more common than is being implied here. Jensa asked you to provide examples of companies who charged for 64-bit only because he thinks that is in very uncommon. When he did that, you berated him as a troll.

I guess you could've been referring to upgrades in general, but the context here is clearly 64-bit upgrade only to an existing plug.

Quite frankly, if it's more common than the complainers believer, then provide other examples. I can only think of BFD Eco upgrade (64-bit) which required a charge, although they at least threw in some extra sample content. Were there others? I don't know.

I don't own any OhmForce Plugs and I can see how their reduced price for non-pack license could play into their decision. However, I have a broader concern that the trend may be to charge in the future (IK, I'm looking in your direction with regard to CSR) since they can say, "well, these other companies charged it so we're just following the trends of the industry."

[LeVzi]

They've said their bit, I received a stupid email from them earlier, can't even sell their plug-ins so I'll just have to stick to the bridged version.

I won't be bothering with Ohmforce again though.

[hibidy]

So I don't understand.

There are some who are saying they now have x64 and others that are NOT going to be x64. Then LeVzi has not been given permission to sell but others have been given permission?

[khanyz]

So I don't understand.

There are some who are saying they now have x64 and others that are NOT going to be x64. Then LeVzi has not been given permission to sell but others have been given permission?

Basically, if you have a multi-format license, you get the x64 version free. If you have the single-format license, you need to upgrade to the multi-format to get it, or buy it separately (which would cost you more than the multi-format upgrade).

As for license transfers, they have always been a bit strange with them. Sometimes they are OK, if you're covert about it, sometimes not.

[LeVzi]

The confusion and who thing really tells a story tbh.

One to be forgotten I think, glad it's only 1 plug-in I have with them.

[tremolounge]

Offhand, I can't think of any devs who have charged for a 64-bit update to the same exact plugin (there must be some, I just can't think of any -- and there are MANY examples of free 64-bit updates; by far the majority).

It seems that "sugar-coating the pill" by folding the 64-bit update in with an actual upgrade is the way some devs choose to make it more palatable: PSP, for example, charged for the 64-bit Vintage Warmer 2.5, but it added the Micro Warmer plug. Looks like IK will be taking this route with SampleTank 3 (and CSR? and Miroslav Philharmonik?).

At least that approach takes some of the sting out of paying: it's "I got something new and better" rather than "I get to use the same thing I've always had in my topmodern DAW."

[Resonator63]

I'm lucky that I have the packs and therefore got the 64bit update.

But I agree they should not be charging for the 64bit update to those that don't have the packs it's not right.Come on Ohmforce sort it out.This could lose you custom in the future.That would be a shame,because Ohmforce have always been good to deal with.

[LeVzi]

I wasn't aware I was buying an NFR either when I originally purchased it.

I enquired about selling it, they sent me a ridiculous email about it all, and when I tried to reply to it, their email address is blocked due to abuse. lol