And if IK does update CSR I hope they don't lose the great sound that is so good about it now.
It's a shame I missed the TRacks group buy because I should've demoed IK's other plugins.
CSR vs. Valhalla Room?
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- KVRAF
- 2336 posts since 13 Oct, 2002 from Terra Firma
I really love Valhalla UberMod. It's a fantastic delay (among other things.) But I still can't fall in love with their reverbs. After demoing VRoom in a number of tracks for over a week I find the sound of it to be slightly too metallic and not as smooth as CSR. No matter what settings I use, to my ears, it doesn't sit right in the mix and I still prefer CSR.
And if IK does update CSR I hope they don't lose the great sound that is so good about it now.
It's a shame I missed the TRacks group buy because I should've demoed IK's other plugins.
And if IK does update CSR I hope they don't lose the great sound that is so good about it now.
It's a shame I missed the TRacks group buy because I should've demoed IK's other plugins.
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Brian @ IK Multimedia Brian @ IK Multimedia https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=249743
- KVRian
- 1042 posts since 6 Feb, 2011
Don't worry, we won't be changing the reverb algorithms. They are modeled on a particular lush Classic Studio Reverb that everyone knows and loves! 
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- KVRAF
- 3606 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy
mandolarian wrote:Short answer: No.vaisnava wrote:Is CSR 64bit?
Long answer: Not yet. But, it's on IK's to-do list, somewhere between Sampletank and world peace.
Silly answer: Cascade two 32bit instances - should be close enough for folk music.
Brilliant
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- KVRian
- 1401 posts since 9 Feb, 2012
Are you giving clues or just being a... well, I probably shouldn't say what I was about to. So, all four plug-ins are modeled on one unit's algorithms? That really means a lot of what you had me searching out was just plain wrong. I saw Lexicon, AMS, Quantec, EMT, etc. If it's the PCM90/91, I guess that's kind of classic now, but then? Not so much. I'm not putting it down, it's a good reverb. That's primarily Michael Carnes' work, right? Is Warp69 not free to say what he modeled? Oh well, I may go back to the scavenger hunt later. I left off reading about Messrs. Lind and Olsen, Scope DSP and all such like. That was probably going back too far. It was interesting though. Google interlude. Maybe it's not going back too far after all:Brian @ IK Multimedia wrote:Don't worry, we won't be changing the reverb algorithms. They are modeled on a particular lush Classic Studio Reverb that everyone knows and loves!
Internet person 1: The CSR is a Lexicon PCM 91
Internet person 2: Not really, they cheapened the algorithms to get them to use less CPU. The original versions that run on the Scope card are equivalent to a PCM91.
Interesting, no?
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- KVRian
- 1401 posts since 9 Feb, 2012
Sorry, I was confusing Brian with Peter in regard to searching. Those IK guys all look the same to me. Of course, they could be the same person: Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno.
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- KVRAF
- 1580 posts since 22 Apr, 2011 from The House of Zaid
I'm just really hoping you buy a reverb plugin so then you can go away...
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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- KVRian
- 1401 posts since 9 Feb, 2012
Ouch. Very funny. Thank you.
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- KVRAF
- 26943 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Don't know if the OP is still reading, but VRoom 1.1 is out... and it includes another new reverb mode!
This is the second free update with a new reverb mode since I purchased VRoom. That is the sort of added value that I appreciate. The dev is continually exploring his art and the users benefit.
This is the second free update with a new reverb mode since I purchased VRoom. That is the sort of added value that I appreciate. The dev is continually exploring his art and the users benefit.
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- KVRian
- 1056 posts since 2 Sep, 2010
I'm glad CSR is defined as metallic and grainy by some and smooth by others and the same goes for ValhallaRoom. I don't like "ultimate opinions" when talking about processors and FX (reverb in particular), although some stuff definitely sucks.
Back in the day some disliked my Alesis Quadraverb 2 - "it's nowhere near PCM70's quality"... still, I've used it in place of some Lexicons and SPX990 and was able to program incredibly structured and deep presets.
It's a very personal matter and happy I own both.
Back in the day some disliked my Alesis Quadraverb 2 - "it's nowhere near PCM70's quality"... still, I've used it in place of some Lexicons and SPX990 and was able to program incredibly structured and deep presets.
It's a very personal matter and happy I own both.
Mmmmhhhh. No. They are not. You realise when you deal with them a little more in depth.antithesist wrote:Those IK guys all look the same to me. Of course, they could be the same person: Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno.
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- Banned
- 1966 posts since 2 Mar, 2004
btw: look here for a shootout (which also includes MReverb and EAReverb):
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347820
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347820
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- KVRAF
- 2336 posts since 13 Oct, 2002 from Terra Firma
There is no doubt that Valhalla products are top notch and the dev puts a lot of effort into improving them. I don't think my reservations about VRoom are its lack of quality just the sound compared to CRS. I'm sure that in certain musician's hands VRoom can be part of a great mix but I'm more inspired by CSR. It's just a preference.pdxindy wrote:Don't know if the OP is still reading, but VRoom 1.1 is out... and it includes another new reverb mode!
This is the second free update with a new reverb mode since I purchased VRoom. That is the sort of added value that I appreciate. The dev is continually exploring his art and the users benefit.
I have a UAD-1 and sometimes the mindset of UAD owners is quite elitist thinking that nothing compares to UAD plugins. I think this is blinkered because in my experience sometimes UAD plugs are right for a mix and not at other times. The point is that a lot of these comparisons come down to personal preference not objective analysis.
The current price of CSR and VRoom together wouldn't even buy one UAD plugin yet I much prefer them to the UAD reverbs.
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- KVRian
- 1401 posts since 9 Feb, 2012
Let it be known that all four CSR plug-ins are most likely based on the Lexicon PCM91. There, was that so hard? Digging a little deeper, they are different than their Scope DSP predecessors by the same programmer, as they are leaner in some respects for less native CPU consumption and are therefore less accurate models. How much less accurate is known to the programmer and some who have compared CSR to the Scope versions and the actual hardware.
Are they worth pennies over ten dollars each? I say heck yeah. In my case, at the very least they are probably worth it from a historical standpoint alone. It also may pay off when and if the update/upgrade rolls in. We'll just have to wait and see on that one. I also figure I might as well have the whole set even though I already have the hall. Now, please give me something I want and need for my jam points and a solution for all my redundant singles licenses.
I personally don't consider the 90 or 91 to be a classic studio reverb even at this date. That honor would go to the 224 and 480 in the Lexicon realm. If you say the the 91 is derivative of those and thereby somehow equally as vintage, you'd have to extend the same to all Lexicon's later reverbs, even their plug-ins. But whatever, believe what you want. I almost always prefer truth over hype. The former was certainly obscured by the latter, in this case.
Are they worth pennies over ten dollars each? I say heck yeah. In my case, at the very least they are probably worth it from a historical standpoint alone. It also may pay off when and if the update/upgrade rolls in. We'll just have to wait and see on that one. I also figure I might as well have the whole set even though I already have the hall. Now, please give me something I want and need for my jam points and a solution for all my redundant singles licenses.
I personally don't consider the 90 or 91 to be a classic studio reverb even at this date. That honor would go to the 224 and 480 in the Lexicon realm. If you say the the 91 is derivative of those and thereby somehow equally as vintage, you'd have to extend the same to all Lexicon's later reverbs, even their plug-ins. But whatever, believe what you want. I almost always prefer truth over hype. The former was certainly obscured by the latter, in this case.
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- KVRAF
- 1612 posts since 18 Feb, 2011 from Salt Lake City, Utah
Thanks! I promise we aren't robots. We are all real people with different interests. They do come out a bit more in conversation.Amon1973 wrote:I'm glad CSR is defined as metallic and grainy by some and smooth by others and the same goes for ValhallaRoom. I don't like "ultimate opinions" when talking about processors and FX (reverb in particular), although some stuff definitely sucks.
Back in the day some disliked my Alesis Quadraverb 2 - "it's nowhere near PCM70's quality"... still, I've used it in place of some Lexicons and SPX990 and was able to program incredibly structured and deep presets.
It's a very personal matter and happy I own both.
Mmmmhhhh. No. They are not. You realise when you deal with them a little more in depth.antithesist wrote:Those IK guys all look the same to me. Of course, they could be the same person: Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno.
