Ohm Force plug-ins going 64bit

[LeVzi]

oh look ! Recently a company updated their flagship product and included the 64bit version FREE !!!

And another released all their plug-ins in RTAS as well to all their cusomters FREE !!!

Would ya get a load of that eh !!!

[Yellow Force]

Hi all,

I'm Franck Bacquet from Ohm Force.

As we're a small business and not the most serious one, so we'll talk openly.

Our pricing policy is, for every product that is not free:
- Pack license (for every norm, OS, architectures we support + lifetime free upgrades like other companies) : XX€
- Single license - for one binary, the one you buy the day of your purchase, with no functional limitations: XX-(10 or 20)€
- At some point, if you want to go to a Pack license, we charge *only* the difference between the two. Then, it's like you've paid in 2 times, no charge.

In our industry (the very small audio plugin one), the norm is to only sell a pack license. We worked (because it means some work on web site but also on binaries) to introduce single license to achieve two goals. First is to propose a cheaper price for the first buy of hobbyists (pros that generally need AU + RTAS + VST have to pick the pack version). BTW, we know that customers that really enjoy our products will probably have to upgrade few years later: PPC to intel, logic only AU support, new 64 format, maybe later RTAS to AIX... And customers that no more use our products will probably be happy to have not paid more for formats that they don't need. Second is to ease our decision making about new maintenance developments. When we have to decide if we spend 2 months on 64bits, it's good to know that our work will be rewarded faster.

That being said, there are 2 ways to feel our pricing policy:
1- What a cool company! They offer a reduced price for my specific need.
2- What an evil company! It's the only one (well almost...) to ask for money for 64bits version.

Even if we know that we can't satisfy every users and that KVR's forum posters don't represent exactly every users, we are quite sad to read that some of you consider the second option. We even feel it's quite unfair.
In the other hand, I admit we did something wrong: our message about what single users were buying was probably not clear enough. Some of you understood that you were buying VST and every upgrades of it (32, 64, VST3 maybe one day, ...) rather than VST2.4 windows 32 bit only. And now, you're angry about that, which we can understand. We're sorry about that.

Half of our customers has pack licenses and will just download new 64bits version if they need to. Now, if we think that a large amount of users feel bad about our policy, or just don't understand it, we'll stop to sell single license. Then we'd come back to the industry's norm: only sell the highest priced and full license.

Regarding license transfer, we had the exact same policy during last 9 years. In the terms you've signed when purchasing, it was written you could't sell your license. I'm sure you'll admit that's the norm within online selling software. However, if you ask us directly, we may authorize it once, with specific conditions.

In any way, we don't consider our relation to users like a struggle. We want happy users, great products and food in our fridges. I hope we'll find solutions to make every ones happy. If you still feel bad about something, please mail us.

Have a good day!
Franck

[kelvyn]

The plug in pack (actually didn't know I had it till I updated to 64bit therefore the original) prices were always cool for me as the product itself was and is outstanding. No complaints from me and the 64's work great. Thanks

[manducator]

Are these the famous 'plugins-which-can't-be-named-when-resold'?

[LeVzi]

Hi all,

I'm Franck Bacquet from Ohm Force.

As we're a small business and not the most serious one, so we'll talk openly.

Our pricing policy is, for every product that is not free:
- Pack license (for every norm, OS, architectures we support + lifetime free upgrades like other companies) : XX€
- Single license - for one binary, the one you buy the day of your purchase, with no functional limitations: XX-(10 or 20)€
- At some point, if you want to go to a Pack license, we charge *only* the difference between the two. Then, it's like you've paid in 2 times, no charge.

In our industry (the very small audio plugin one), the norm is to only sell a pack license. We worked (because it means some work on web site but also on binaries) to introduce single license to achieve two goals. First is to propose a cheaper price for the first buy of hobbyists (pros that generally need AU + RTAS + VST have to pick the pack version). BTW, we know that customers that really enjoy our products will probably have to upgrade few years later: PPC to intel, logic only AU support, new 64 format, maybe later RTAS to AIX... And customers that no more use our products will probably be happy to have not paid more for formats that they don't need. Second is to ease our decision making about new maintenance developments. When we have to decide if we spend 2 months on 64bits, it's good to know that our work will be rewarded faster.

That being said, there are 2 ways to feel our pricing policy:
1- What a cool company! They offer a reduced price for my specific need.
2- What an evil company! It's the only one (well almost...) to ask for money for 64bits version.

Even if we know that we can't satisfy every users and that KVR's forum posters don't represent exactly every users, we are quite sad to read that some of you consider the second option. We even feel it's quite unfair.
In the other hand, I admit we did something wrong: our message about what single users were buying was probably not clear enough. Some of you understood that you were buying VST and every upgrades of it (32, 64, VST3 maybe one day, ...) rather than VST2.4 windows 32 bit only. And now, you're angry about that, which we can understand. We're sorry about that.

Half of our customers has pack licenses and will just download new 64bits version if they need to. Now, if we think that a large amount of users feel bad about our policy, or just don't understand it, we'll stop to sell single license. Then we'd come back to the industry's norm: only sell the highest priced and full license.

Regarding license transfer, we had the exact same policy during last 9 years. In the terms you've signed when purchasing, it was written you could't sell your license. I'm sure you'll admit that's the norm within online selling software. However, if you ask us directly, we may authorize it once, with specific conditions.

In any way, we don't consider our relation to users like a struggle. We want happy users, great products and food in our fridges. I hope we'll find solutions to make every ones happy. If you still feel bad about something, please mail us.

Have a good day!
Franck

The specific conditions of selling a license being that you must not advertise the sale on a website or forum, so how in the hell are you supposed to sell it ? Morse Code? Waving flags ? Telepathy ?

"FS : A plugin - I can't tell you what one but it's going to cost you x amount"

I'm sure i'll have people breaking my doors down to get at this plug-in.

Again, you are drawing the line between formats here, you are stating the 64bit version of the plug-in I own is a different format, it simply is NOT. It's just the more updated version that works in the modern 64bit hosts. I do not want to support the AU, RTAS or AAX formats, yet I am forced to by getting the pack license. They should be single format licenses, and any updates within that format are not charged for. And you should stop making out like you are doing me a favour with the €20 discount with the single license when now you are trying to get it back. I'd have rather paid €99 in the first place and had the 64bit as a free update.

Your policies are your business, I just will not be supporting Ohmforce again.

Btw I already had contact with someone from your company regarding re-selling , but when I tried to reply to his email, turns out your domain is blacklisted by my ISP.

[khanyz]

Again, you are drawing the line between formats here, you are stating the 64bit version of the plug-in I own is a different format, it simply is NOT. It's just the more updated version that works in the modern 64bit hosts.

That is simply your opinion, and one that looks to be based on convenience, rather than any technical consideration.

Going from VST SDK v2 to v2.4 is a format update. 32-bit and 62-bit are different variants which are developed in parallel, not sequentially, and have different data requirements.

[LeVzi]

Again, you are drawing the line between formats here, you are stating the 64bit version of the plug-in I own is a different format, it simply is NOT. It's just the more updated version that works in the modern 64bit hosts.

That is simply your opinion, and one that looks to be based on convenience, rather than any technical consideration.

Going from VST SDK v2 to v2.4 is a format update. 32-bit and 62-bit are different variants which are developed in parallel, not sequentially, and have different data requirements.

Based on convenience ? It's based on what pretty much every other dev does, so why Ohmforce think they are so special charging €20 for a 64bit update to an old plug-in is beyond me. Version 2 would have been a better idea and well worth paying for.

[Aloysius]

Upgrade to Ohmicide:Melohman Pack 20.00 EUR
Upgrade to Symptohm:Melohman Pack 20.00 EUR

40 EURO???

DEV: We are a small company. We need to eat.

CUST: At least you have a job. I need to eat too guys. I'll pass on this 'amazing' offer.

[hibidy]

Still confused. We need to eat? Really? I thought..........er, nevermind.

[khanyz]

Based on convenience ? It's based on what pretty much every other dev does, so why Ohmforce think they are so special charging €20 for a 64bit update to an old plug-in is beyond me. Version 2 would have been a better idea and well worth paying for.

Format is a technical term and has a definite meaning based upon data, and interface (API/SDK/OS) requirements. What a "dev does", in terms of licensing and pricing, is not a technical consideration.

Also, do those other devs have single or multi licensing?

[hibidy]

Er, are you kidding? Either I'm really not understand or the answer is overwhelmingly ALL of them.

I can use mac, rtas, x86, x64 on all of the ones that I know of

[khanyz]

Er, are you kidding? Either I'm really not understand or the answer is overwhelmingly ALL of them.

I can use mac, rtas, x86, x64 on all of the ones that I know of

I'm just try to get an equivalent comparison. If the other devs have multi-licensing (which is probably their standard), then OhmForce is doing exactly the same by adding a free 64-bit update to it.

What I want to know is, is there another dev that does single format licensing and added 64-bit to it for free. I can't think of one.

[Mauve Force]

Hey guys,

Mauve Force from Ohm Force speaking.

I spent my day yesterday to answer various questions about upgrades and restarting our bloody server every 5 minutes (BTW, sorry if you had troubles reaching our website).

Among our customers some are not at all happy with our policy, some accept it with no question.

I even answered yesterday to a guy complaining to have to pay for a full Pack license of Ohmicide:Melohman (EUR 99) to get 64 bit, and I answered him that he already owned it and so the ugprade was free to him.

In fact with bundles that come with Pack licenses, the greater part of our customer only have to download for free the 64 bit version (and I guess that's why our website is heavy loaded these days).

We decided to act differently than other companies long ago to advantage our customers. Yes I can believe that had to do with us having as such high esteem of ourselves. We were young, wanting to change the world and all.

During 10 years we have had some complaints about it. It was me most of the time who answered to them. Quite often I had them at the end understanding our point of view.

Today there is a little more big number of complaints. I still feel sad about them because our aim was to help, to fight the unfairness a Windows customer having to pay for Mac dev costs (and vice and versa).

We are at some point where "at least you have a job" doesn't apply that much. We are a little company and never had big means. Today our server is sick and we have no one handy to fix it.
We *never* considered that disappointment of our customers was of little importance.
We still think that this price policy is an advantage for most of our customers, and I must say that if we seriously consider to stop it, the only reason would to do "like other do".

I respect the opinion of every body around. You still think our policy is lame, that Ohm Force cheats on their customers, well I can understand you think that.
Drop me a mail. I will listen your point of view and try to find an acceptable solution for your matter.

webmaster@ohmforce.com

[samsam]

As an interested observer but an outsider (I have no OF plugs) some thoughts:

OF policy about anonymous ads for selling their products to other users always struck me as odd but better than none at all (or charging $50 for each transfer, WTF?)

Charging for 64 bit upgrades seems a shame but OF are hardly the only ones. Personally, I'd pay it, reluctantly, but I'd do it

The OF dudes who have posted on here come across as regular, open guys, inviting users to send emails to discuss it further, and I'd have no problem spending money with these guys if I ever decide to purchase any of their stuff.

[whyterabbyt]

Er, are you kidding? Either I'm really not understand or the answer is overwhelmingly ALL of them.

I can use mac, rtas, x86, x64 on all of the ones that I know of

Yeah, and you didnt get the option of a discount for opting to use only one of them.