Need some advice on new studio setup please!

[bigdaveo11]

Thanks guys good stuff. Currently reading Rod Gervais book and it does a good job of explaining things such as comb filtering. Anyway good info regarding the closet and windows, I will consider your method mentioned above regarding the mounting^ as well as filling the closet with pillows, blankets other absorbent items. My buddy does own some heavy "black-out" drapes that I am thinking would work well for the window area as well.

[bigdaveo11]

Hey everyone,

So here is what I am thinking so far and the issues I still have yet to decide.

1. Placing my monitors firing down the long length of the room with the asymmetrical area (door entrance) behind the listening position, with the monitors about 38% of the length away from the wall, positioned directly in the middle between the two parallel side walls.
1. Using fiber glass panels (purchased from GIK or another acoustic treatment retailer instead of DIY) to treat the first reflections on the left side of my listening position (the closet), two panels in front of the listening position and two panels in the back.

My Remaining Issues are:
1. To the right side of my listening position treating the window alcove. My friend has "black out" curtains that are quite thick and I was debating about using those to cover the window and that alcove area.
-Firstly are the curtains are a good idea to treat this area or should I plug the window and place an acoustic panel over that.
-If I do use the curtains should I be purchasing them from an acoustics retailer that specifically sells curtains for this purpose? any recommendations?
-I would like to fill the alcove area behind the curtains with more absorbent material to help the low end, any suggestions, stacking pillows to fill that alcove area??

2. The next issue is to the left side and involves the closet doors. I suppose I could hang my fiber panel at the first reflection point (not sure how to mount this yet) and like I would do with the area behind the curtains, fill the closet with some type of absorbent material (not sure what yet, any ideas much appreciated) to help the low end.

3. Treating the ceiling which has the octagon shaped alcove that extends a few inches upward. I am thinking I could apply the same idea as the window alcove, hanging acoustic curtains down and filling the space between with more absorbent material. Not sure how aesthetically pleasing this would be but that is not much of a concern .

I know I have asked a-lot in this thread and more questions keep popping up just trying to collect all my ideas and weigh my options before I make my purchases in the next month. Really appreciate the input so far as well as any additional advice on the above issues. Thanks again!

[annode]

Besides using...(maybe using)...thick dense curtains, there's nothing of what i've suggested in your plans. It seems you have thrown science out the window and maybe thinking that modeling your room after a Jetsons' cartoon could be more advantageous.

I remember you saying you were reading a book on home studio setup. With that info and what we've given you, you should be able to figure it out.
I think your not wanting to get to the basic principles of it and do the numbers.
What I said on deadening your closet wasn't something I just made up...there's science and reasoning behind it. It's not the closet space that's the prob, it's the door between the two spaces. It becomes a resonating membrane.

Why did you decide to bring the monitors that far in towards the room center? (38%)
Not clear which wall your 38% from either.
There are some basic rules that are true to treating any room. Like;
- Kill the corners.
- Only one of two adjacent walls needs treatment to stop a standing wave. So...
- Panels, other then those in corners, should be places asymmetrically around the room. If you have more panel area then open wall surface you can go symmetrical.
- If your listening position,(sweet spot) is your prime spot, make your 'listening triangle' as tight as possible. The signal to reflection ratio will be highest. In other words, the closer you are from the monitors, the less of the room you'll hear...the lower the volume level you'll need.

Don't go crazy..it's not worth losing your sanity over it. Set it up using the rules, then work it about from there .
PS: I really suggest you put the mons at 45degs facing inwards and at the front wall. Then experiment from there.
These are my last words of advice.

[bigdaveo11]

Thank you annode. apologies, you have provided more than enough advice, wasn't trying to make it look like I did not consider anything you said, you have helped more than any others.

I was just still a bit confused and was trying to run things over in my head without necessarily thinking it through and taking into account advice in this thread and others as well as the textbooks I have read/been reading. What I did not understand about the treatment of the closet doors was placing the pressed particle board on the "rear side of the door" as you mentioned in your previous post, unless you were referring to the outside surface facing inwards towards the monitors.

38% was a number percentage mentioned in a few of the books/threads as a good starting distance to place your monitors away from the back wall (in front of the listening position). However using REW to caculate the best sweet spot would be the ideal method since 38% obviously does not apply to every room, merely a starting point. 38% of the length of the room that is so in my case 38% of 153inches = is 58inches. I may be misunderstanding this but that is how I interpreted it from the books.

Thanks for the advice regarding the angle of the monitors as well

[annode]

My apologies, I didn't notice your closet doors were folding types.
I recommend leaving the doors wide open and filing the closets with hanging clothes...as much as you can, but no reason to bunch...air between the clothes is a good thing. That should do the job..all things considered.

If you weren't doing it already, i'd recommend 'standing off' the corner traps 6" to 12" from each adjacent wall. This will help absorption since you will also be catching waves behind your traps, making them more effective.
I would put a trap panel in the upper corners where the ceiling meets your wall corners and angled down 45degs.

Here are close approximations of which full wave musical notes will resonate in your room.
Length = 17.2 ft = C2 = 65.4 hz
Width = 11.9 ft = E2 = 82.4 hz
Width = 11.9 ft = F2 = 87.3 hz
Height = 8.2 ft = C3 = 130.8 hz

As you can see, if you set up along the length, the closets wall will be the least of your problems. If you have your mons 4.8' from the wall behind them, I would treat this wall, each corner, hanging traps a few feet down from ceiling between you and the mons and heavily treating the side walls between you and the mons.
Treat all four corners as mentioned.

Hmmm...have you noticed what's wrong with this picture? Symmetry.
Setting up down the length creates problems. One side is closets and a doorway vestibule , the other a large window. This is trouble. I would approach the setup looking on through the window as I mentioned a few replies ago.
If the mons are at the wall where the window meets the walls, pointed in @ 45deg angles , the window won't be a big prob...and you can always drape it somewhat heavily.(recommended) The closets will be fine doors open with clothes in them, and make a removable corner trap configuration at the door exit.

Still consider trapping the walls and corners behind the mons heavily as mentioned above. At the walls along the length , position your traps a-symmetrically...in other words, traps are hung opposite to the other wall. This is really not important because of the wavelength of that distance...long waves are not directional.

That's my take on your room. Hope you give it some more thought.

[camsr]

Annode has the right idea regarding the closets, but this idea can be investigated further. Because their is a small air gap between doors (usually, but important here) the closet acts as a Helmholtz device (consult MHoA). The volume of the closet is the tuned frequency, and if it matches any of your room modes then it will act as a very good bass trap. Opening the doors will widen this tuned frequency so it absorbs more frequencies, but will lower the absorption coefficient.

I still stand by the idea of placing the monitors to the right of the entry. It allows the most bass to leave the room, so there is less interference.

[Syncretia]

What would you recommend instead of foam?

I don't have any recommendations because I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I can tell you what I built and can tell you that it was easy, fun, less expensive that pre-made foam, and according to most people better for absorption than foam in the lower frequency range.

-Bought a bag of Pink Sonobatts (Australian product). Apparently, it has the same frequency absorption as rock wool. You should be able to buy rockwool anywhere. These batts were perfectly sized. 7cm thick which apparently is very good. Also, I could cut them in to any shape.

-I made the frames from pine. I just made sure that frame was 7cm wide to match the batts. I connected the frames together with brackets and screws. 4 for each piece of treatment. They cost about $1.50 each.

-I placed the batts in the frames and wrapped them in cheap material from Ikea and other fabric stores. I bought a staple gun from the hardware store to make the fabric nice and tight.

-I used 3M products to hang these on the walls. 3M makes these great double sided pads that you can stick on the wall without needing to screw a hook in to the wall.

The result was very good even though I've never done any DYI stuff before.

[randy4me]

Made my panels from Owens Corning R13. My room is far from perfect but they make a world of difference. They cost about $15-$20/each to make. Something to think about before dropping $100+/per panel.

[bigdaveo11]

Annode: no worries, much appreciated. The closet door issue makes much more sense now, as well having the approx resonance of specific musical notes. I figured the closet doors to the left and the window to the right would create some problems so I will revisit the idea of having the mons placed in front of the window area, treating the window and leaving the closet doors open with clothes hung inside. Good call on the removal bass traps as well for the door entryway!

Camsr: Thanks for your advice regarding the closet and placement. If I were to go about placing the mons on the right wall upon entry, even though this would be allowing my mons to fire down the length of the room I would still run into asymmetry problems as the door entryway would be to my right and the other wall to my left if I am reading your description correctly.

Randy4me and Syncretia: good stuff regarding the DIY steps. That was my next issue to tackle once I decided on placement and the type of treatment. Sounds like taking the extra time to construct the items yourself will save a-lot of $ in the end. Those black panels look pretty dang sweet! I would also love to use the 3M products and avoid screwing into the wall.

Thanks again for all your responses^

[annode]

Happy to hear your willing to try the window location.
Here's a suggestion for panel mounting;
- I've had success hanging panels from wires hung from plastic anchors set into the ceiling. Hardware suppliers carry them, and as kits they look like this; (red designates 1/4" . Don't go smaller)


Drill a 1/4" hole into ceiling, tap in the anchor, wrap 'hanging wire' around screw. (Don't turn screw so tight as it will break wire over time.)
Good system because;
No holes in walls...easy to 'stand off' panels away from walls...easy to reconfigure panels as you set up your room.

This wire from Radio Shack...or most hardware chains, is cheap and works well;

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2049738
Its a solid conductor so it might not look as good hanging as stranded wire.

[bigdaveo11]

good solution^ Was wondering about the mounting issue. It is my buddy's parents house so I am sure they will be willing to allow this type of install and as you said I can allow space behind the panels.

[annode]

This morning I was reminded of an acoustical experience which had an impact on me. I would like to share it with you.
- I was listening to music from my Mackies sitting in my previous home studio space.
I noticed a pronounced mid to high frequency wavering or fluttering of the sound. I walked up to the mons and listened, but didn't hear it coming from them. I was baffled, no pun intended. After a time, I looked up at my overhead ceiling fan. Suspicious, I turned it off and noticed the fluttering slowed with the slowing of the fan blades.

This shows just how influential reflective surfaces can be.
I went right to work on preventing ceiling reflections coming to my listening position.

The 1st pix shows the fan and the panel treatment I mounted around it. (the ceiling was 14' above me.) (ceiling panels not yet mounted in 2nd pix below.)


I also hung a panel just feet above each mon to prevent sound from going upward and reflecting off of surfaces and back to me. (hanging panels low and above the mons covers a greater area of sound absorbency with a great deal less material needed... in respect to the material needed at the ceiling to accomplish the same end.)


This should be a good lesson considering the rather great distance between my mons, the fan blades and my chair. A lesser distance in a typically sized room , I would guess, would reflect with a much shorter time delay creating phase cancellation and combing effects.

PS: These pix were taken some time ago...noting the old CRT monitors.

[geroyannis]

Does the fan still serve it's purpose?

Also, I'm definitely no expert but I would expect that these panels right above the monitors cause more problems than what they solve. What are they made of? They seem hard and reflective.

[annode]

Does the fan still serve it's purpose?

Also, I'm definitely no expert but I would expect that these panels right above the monitors cause more problems than what they solve. What are they made of? They seem hard and reflective.

Does the fan still serve it's purpose?

I couldn't tell 'ya...I don't live there now. But when I did, I rarely used it. The moving fan blades opened my eyes to the effect of ceiling reflectance that wasn't naturally apparent.

I would expect that these panels right above the monitors cause more problems than what they solve. What are they made of? They seem hard and reflective

A proper question worth asking.
- I have two types of office cubicle sound panels. The bluish ones against the wall have some absorption properties but way more reflective. (2 layers of 1/2" gypsum board w/ a thin layer of tight fabric over a layer of thin insulation of some sort. They weigh a ton.)
- The type over the mons are mainly absorptive. The center is some sort of synthetic insulating material housed between perforated cardboard. It's covered with a layer of loosely woven, porous, (and a wider weave then even burlap) fabric over-top of a layer of soft foam.

The panels were hung considerably higher then my head when sitting, as not to constrict the sound too much.
Considering the construction of these panels, i'm fairly convinced they absorbed far greater then they reflected. The reflection i'm sure was too low to be significant in my case.
Yes...if you do this, it is important that the absorptive, diffusing material used has a very low incidence of reflectance.

[bigdaveo11]

very cool looking studio btw!