KVR Audio

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Again this really all boils down to what is determined as a new format.

64bit is not a new format.

VST 32bit and VST 64bit are the same format just different bit depths. OK they need to be coded differently, but they are both VST and that's the format, the bit depth does NOT determine it's format. There is no format called 64bit, its 64bit VST or AU.

I paid for the VST format. 32bit was the only option back then, I was fine with that, I did not expect to have to pay an additional €20 for the same format just 64bit.

You can spout as much technical jargon as you wish, 64bit and 32bit are not separate formats , VST and AU are. I think you need to accept that.

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:07 pm

LeVzi wrote:Again this really all boils down to what is determined as a new format.

No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option. Others purchased the "all included" more expensive option. And now you and others are trying to get something for free harrasing the developers, Kvr's national sport.

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:10 pm

standalone wrote:
LeVzi wrote:Again this really all boils down to what is determined as a new format.
No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option. Others purchased the "all included" more expensive option. And now you and others are trying to get something for free harrasing the developers, Kvr's national sport.

Rubbish, I paid for the windows VST version, If I wanted Mac or RTAS i'd have bought the pack license.

So try not to miss the point eh ?

Goratrix · Post by **Goratrix** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:13 pm

standalone wrote:No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option.

"the cheap option"???

How is purchasing a VST only version a "cheap option" for someone who does not use ProTools and has no intentions of buying an Apple computer? It's a logical option, not a "cheap" one.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:25 pm

Goratrix wrote:
standalone wrote:No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option.
"the cheap option"???

How is purchasing a VST only version a "cheap option" for someone who does not use ProTools and has no intentions of buying an Apple computer? It's a logical option, not a "cheap" one.

Because you have the option of doing so, unlike with most other plugin developers, from whom you wouldnt get any discount merely because you're not using ProTools and have no intention of buying an Apple computer...

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:30 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Goratrix wrote:
standalone wrote:No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option.
"the cheap option"???

How is purchasing a VST only version a "cheap option" for someone who does not use ProTools and has no intentions of buying an Apple computer? It's a logical option, not a "cheap" one.
Because you have the option of doing so, unlike with most other plugin developers, from whom you wouldnt get any discount merely because you're not using ProTools and have no intention of buying an Apple computer...

Absolutely correct.

So why is 64bit of the same format you paid for suddenly a brand new format ?

Simply put, it isn't. It's just a different bit depth, and if that requires revenue to develop, then so be it. That's fine. But don't expect ppl to like it, when every other dev doesn't charge for 64bit versions of their existing 32bit ones.

What if synth edit suddenly starts to support 64bit, are all the devs who currently use SE going to charge to port to 64bit ? I doubt it.

How many people buy a VST plug-in for windows and then have to choose if they want the 64 or 32 bit version ? Answer is zero. So unless the single license by Ohmforce reflects that, then they might as well scrap it.

Goratrix · Post by **Goratrix** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:24 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Goratrix wrote:
standalone wrote:No, it's just that you purchased the cheap option.
"the cheap option"???

How is purchasing a VST only version a "cheap option" for someone who does not use ProTools and has no intentions of buying an Apple computer? It's a logical option, not a "cheap" one.
Because you have the option of doing so, unlike with most other plugin developers, from whom you wouldnt get any discount merely because you're not using ProTools and have no intention of buying an Apple computer...

That makes no sense. The option was given by the developers, why should a customer care what other developers offer? It's irrelevant. If someone only uses Windows, the LOGICAL choice was to buy a VST only license.

Calling it a "cheap option" is like calling it "cheap" when you buy just a burger instead of a full menu. Well, guess what, I don't want a coke or fries. I just want a burger, so I buy just that. How the hell does that make it a "cheap option"? It doesn't.

khanyz · Post by **khanyz** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:32 pm

Goratrix wrote:That makes no sense. The option was given by the developers, why should a customer care what other developers offer? It's irrelevant. If someone only uses Windows, the LOGICAL choice was to buy a VST only license

Yes, customers only make comparisons with other developers when it's to their advantage.

How dare you use it to prove a point against us

.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:39 pm

LeVzi wrote: So why is 64bit of the same format you paid for suddenly a brand new format ?

Simply put, it isn't. It's just a different bit depth

No offence, but when a non-programmer starts bandying the adverb 'just' around when it comes to software, its usually the case that they have no idea what they're talking about. Coding isnt waving a magic wand, and what non-coders assume is trivial, almost certainly isnt. khanyz has already mentioned some of the potential issues, for example.

For example, when folk talk about 64-bit plugins, its not bit-depth that's different. An 8-bit processor could be made to handle 64-bit bit-depth.

64-bit in terms of operating systems (and hence software) refers to memory addressing, and, for our purposes when talking about audio software, by extension, effectively ties that to the instruction set of the processor (ie the Intel x86 instruction set versus AMD x64 instruction set.)
Big difference from bit-depth.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:42 pm

Food/software analogies are tricky to do right, aren't they?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:50 pm

Goratrix wrote:That makes no sense.

Prove what is logically incorrect, please.

The option was given by the developers, why should a customer care what other developers offer?

I have no idea why they should, Im not a mind reader.

However given that we're talking about customers who are already making comparisons with what other developers offer, its completely disingenuous of you to suddenly pretend that that's not the yardstick being used.

It's irrelevant. If someone only uses Windows, the LOGICAL choice was to buy a VST only license.

Not if they use ProTools.

Calling it a "cheap option" is like calling it "cheap" when you buy just a burger instead of a full menu. Well, guess what, I don't want a coke or fries. I just want a burger, so I buy just that. How the hell does that make it a "cheap option"? It doesn't.

Hmmm, so you're saying that if someone has two options, one of which is cheaper, then you consider it invalid to refer to it as the cheap option.
No, sorry. Its grammatically not as precise as 'cheaper option', but its prefectly valid, and there's no logical flaw in referring to an option which is cheaper as 'the cheap option' given that its a commonly-used, commonly-understood phrase meaning precisely that.
Feel free to google the phrase 'cheap option' and berate half of the english-speakers on planet earth if you have problems with that. In the meantime, I know what it means, we know what it means, and Im pretty sure that despite the disingenuous attempt to pretend it doesnt mean what it means, you know what it means too.

Goratrix · Post by **Goratrix** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:00 pm

Whatever. Ohmforce just lost a substantial part of their userbase (myself included, and I own pack licenses) with this dickish move, I guess they know what they are doing, it's their choice.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:11 pm

Goratrix wrote:Whatever. Ohmforce just lost a substantial part of their userbase (myself included, and I own pack licenses) .

I doubt it.

Fire Sledge - Ohm Force · Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:12 pm

Fascinating. I think I'm going to grab another bucket of popcorn.

— Laurent

AKJ · Post by **AKJ** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm

since there seem to be no other VST plugin vendors with a similar business practice, let's see how sample pack vendors usually handle it:

Some give you just all available formats (pack model). Some give you the option to have all format or to pick onyl one format (for a slightly reduced price). This is obviously very similar the the model Ohmforce has chosen. But what happens if when a new sampler generation apprears. Well, usually you can load the old libs even into the new generation (like you can load Kontakt 2 patches in Kontakt 5). But sometimes it requires some fixes especially if a lot of scripting is going on. These fixes for the new format always have been free with all the sampling libraries i know. However, sometimes a dev decides to completely redu the lib in order to make use of new features. Sometimes, even these updates are free. Sometime, you need to buy an upgrade. For me this is ok and if I like the new features I buy it. But in the case of Ohmforce.: where are the new features? I can#t see them. I they had been wise, they would have launched the next generation of their plugins with the 64 bit move. I guess, no one would complain about charging for it then (at least not me).

Ohm Force plug-ins going 64bit