Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[andy-cytomic]

btw why no juno6/60 filter?? is it not the best filter ever made? ;P i think yes!

From what I've heard it uses the same IR3109 filter IC as JP8..
Just saying..

The IC is one thing... levels and circuitry around it is another. Juno 6/60 can self oscillate, JP-8 not. They do sound distinctively different.

Also, JP-8 had two major revisions. I've been told the earlier one uses different opAmps, maybe even a different structure.

Hey Urs,

Yes there are some differences between the two circuits, mainly the input gains, and the resonance compensation, but since I have adjustable input drive, and I normalise the signal so there is no droop in the passband (edit: when resonance is increased) the circuits are pretty much the same from my point of view.

I have also matched the resonance ranges of all the filters so the end user can switch between the circuits and listen to the tonal differences as I feel this is more practical than slavishly modelling the exact characteristics of the original. I also have also modified the resonance feedback saturation and droop compensation in the JP8/Juno6 model since again I am interested in a useful range of resonance for mixing applications. For all these reasons simply calling the filters by their general name is an attractive option, so for the JP8/Juno6 filter is really should be: Cascade core=OTA BA662 res=OTA BA662, but I think just Cascade will have to do.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The actual filter circuits roughly being emulated are:
Moog Prodigy, Jupiter 8, MS20 rev1, MS20 rev2, SEM 1a

The confusing and long but technically correct names are:
Ladder, Cascade, Sallen Key 1, Sallen Key 2, State Variable

Another alternative is to use three letter acronyms, do people think these are informative and still tasteful enough?
MGF, JPF, MSF 1, MSF 2, SMF

The downside to using the technical names is that I didn't come from a synthesis background and know nothing about how these filters are constructed or why that makes them sound they way they do. DIVA got me kind of used to identifying some of these, but I still feel like taking more of a layman's explanation of the filter type will help with the naming convention. If I were to use 3 character acronyms I'd suggest: MOG, JUP, MS1, MS2, SM1.

If you didn't come from a synth background then your not going to know how the 'correctly named' filters sound either

Not true, or perhaps I didn't express myself as well as I should have the first time. I generally know Moogs, Junos, MS20s, etc. What I don't know is "cascade," "ladder," "salien key," etc. Those terms mean nothing to me. I don't even know what exactly they describe. But if you, me, or a client wants some fat Moog flavor, or a more spiky MS-20 sound, then calling them by names I can associate to the synths helps.

Calling them by the more technical terms just seems a bit too nerdy and maybe even a tiny bit snobbish when most people 1) don't know what those terms mean, and 2) would generally understand what those filters are modeled on (and what they sound like) if they knew the synths. I honestly don't even personally know anyone who could tell me what a ladder filter is, but all my musician friends know Moogs and what they sound like.

[andy-cytomic]

... I honestly don't even personally know anyone who could tell me what a ladder filter is, but all my musician friends know Moogs and what they sound like.

The Ladder: 550-series-ladder-filter

Even Moog call it a ladder filter, but I understand where you are coming from, which is why I was initially leaning towards referring to the original synths in some way so people could more easily identify them. I think I'm doing to stick with the technical names as this is the safest both from an identification point of view and least troublesome since I'm not exactly modelling specific synthesizers here, just the general structures and tone and I make modifications where I feel it improves things for this plugin.

[soulata]

When?

k

[Howard]

Andy: Maybe you could change the cutoff knob image (not all of them - don't want to get TOO "Diva" here!)

[snigelx]

I've been hard at work in the Cytomic Labs, and have something very cool to report,...
https://cytomic.com/files/thedrop-one-sided-tranny.mp3

Fantastic sound! My ears enjoy this so much, they instructed me to throw this into itunes and get it on my phone to feed directly to my brain in phones

But seriously, I really like where this is heading! I really can't wait to try this in a few Ableton racks where I have used other devices for Hi-Cut and Lo-Cut filtering on parts. This will surely give some of that material fed through those racks some new dimension. When I get my hands on this I am going to make it eat every signal I have and modulate her in very perverse ways...Yeah,... Well, It will be revolutionary, period. Good luck putting on the finishing touches and by all means, take your time because the best things (this) come to those who can wait (for development). Cheers!

[andy-cytomic]

When?

k

Still no date set in stone yet, sorry!

[andy-cytomic]

Andy: Maybe you could change the cutoff knob image (not all of them - don't want to get TOO "Diva" here!)

Too Diva or too Thor?

[_leras]

When?

k

Still no date set in stone yet, sorry!

As a small DEV shouldn't you be just focused on getting something out ASAP, then adding things like one sided trannies as incremental updates/additional and recurrent PR opportunities....

Seems like other products might get the jump on you... (fxpansion etch, uhe adding audio in to DIVA, or adding DIVA filters to Uhbik etc).

btw, like athe attention to detail to allow smooth switching between filters etc. all sound examples sound great, so something to buy would be great!



.

[afreshcupofjoe]

As a small DEV shouldn't you be just focused on getting something out ASAP, then adding things like one sided trannies as incremental updates/additional and recurrent PR opportunities....

Seems like other products might get the jump on you... (fxpansion etch, uhe adding audio in to DIVA, or adding DIVA filters to Uhbik etc).

btw, like athe attention to detail to allow smooth switching between filters etc. all sound examples sound great, so something to buy would be great!

Wow, so what you are essentially say is "I want this, and I have zero patience, so I'm going to tell a developer he doesn't know how to run his own business in order to try to badger him into releasing it sooner."

Really nice move there. What a certified douche.

Let the guy finish his plugin. We know that Andy doesn't push vaporware. The Glue took a long time to finish too, but it was well worth it. This is what makes guys like him a cut above the rest. The last thing we need is another company that rushes half-assed, buggy products to sale in order to meet release deadlines.

[homunculus]

Hey Andy I have a question for you and I apologize if it's off topic, lots of times when I do filter sweeps, especially low pass ones, i get a really bad distortion, i always check my volumes and everything seems ok, its just when low passing some really bad distortion comes up(especially on vocals), is it the audio source or the filter, and if it is the filter, will the Drop help me in that area, it really makes me mad because lots of times when I do the sweeps its to get a gentle and mellow feeling and it just sounds nastyy, anyways either way i will be getting the Drop, ive bothered you a couple of times already on Gearslutz hehe , i love your support and the Glue which is by far the best comp Plugin on the market and I have tried them all, ive made all of my mixing friends converts to the Glue

by the way for my sweeps and stuff I use EQuality and Volcano

[@midnight]

well I know Volcano doesn't add any unintended distortion when doing filter sweeps, after all it is expressly a filter plugin and if it couldn't do filter sweeps, it would be a pretty broken filter plugin.

[homunculus]

well I know Volcano doesn't add any unintended distortion when doing filter sweeps, after all it is expressly a filter plugin and if it couldn't do filter sweeps, it would be a pretty broken filter plugin.

i know, i can tell it isnt an unintended distortion, ive done many distorted intended sweeps and they sound great, nothing like the distortion im talking about, thats why i cant wait for the Drop, hopefully that will get me set filterwise, since i love filtering everything

[andy-cytomic]

Hey Andy I have a question for you and I apologize if it's off topic, lots of times when I do filter sweeps, especially low pass ones, i get a really bad distortion, i always check my volumes and everything seems ok, its just when low passing some really bad distortion comes up(especially on vocals), is it the audio source or the filter, and if it is the filter, will the Drop help me in that area, it really makes me mad because lots of times when I do the sweeps its to get a gentle and mellow feeling and it just sounds nastyy, anyways either way i will be getting the Drop, ive bothered you a couple of times already on Gearslutz hehe , i love your support and the Glue which is by far the best comp Plugin on the market and I have tried them all, ive made all of my mixing friends converts to the Glue

by the way for my sweeps and stuff I use EQuality and Volcano

It will not be the audio source, if that doesn't sound distorted to you when not filtered then it is the filter doing the distortion. Can you please email me an example of a vocal you want to filter both dry and filtered so I can hear exactly what you mean? www.cytomic.com/contact

I'm not sure EQuality is the best thing to use for sweeps, I doubt very much that the filter structure used is designed for that, most EQ style direct form 1 or variant structure sound terrible when swept.

Analog synth style filters usually distort most at the cutoff frequency, so analog modelled ones should do this as well. A very easy way around this is to pad the input signal to the filter, then boost it again afterwards, try -18 dB on the input and +18 on the output (or even more if needed) and see how you go. Make sure you keep the resonance level down if you do this.

I personally like the sound of the extra drive that is introduced at cutoff, things should still sound dull from the filtering but with just a little edge to bring out some more tone.

[samsam]

Andy, will it have a comb filter?