Does anyone NOT like Diva?

[AKJ]

btw, I will reveal now my secret weapons in order to achieve that special touch-sound in synths:

a) Unstable by de la mancha: http://www.delamancha.co.uk/unstable.htm
(not really about warmness, but really cool for pitch instability fx if you like it lofi - which I do at times)

b) Metallurgy by ugo: http://www.ugoaudio.com/plug-ins/metallurgy
this is really such a wonderful tool for any sound designer. A real must.

cheers, akj

You like Synthedit-powered lo-fi? Nice, staying away from Diva is the right decision then. Can we all move on?

have you actually tried those plugins. Or is it just your stupid prejudice? I own a lot of non-synthedit "creative" plugins (like CamelPhat, CamelSpace, iZotope Spectron, iZotope Trash, Ohmicide etc., etc.) which are also great, but these two imo stand out for the purposee to give that special touch.

[braj]

Diva, beyong its sound, also for me has a wonderful interface, good preset browser, flexible scalable quality settings (including switching out modules, voice settings, etc.) It really was the synth I was looking for when I found it. Now I totally understand how my preferences aren't shared by all others, but some people really seem to have unwarranted animosity for it just because it is so well received. To me that is not a good reason to dislike a synth. But as they say, opinions are like assholes, and there are lots of opinions on kvr

[AKJ]

warm is not eq' driven.....even if I, inadequately defined it in terms of frequencies..... but clearly I think you are purposely trying to be ridiculous in your argument.

so what is it then?

edit: now you are denying that it is something defined in term of frequencies because you realize that an eq obviously could create warmness easily if it were the case.

I used to be an analogue agnostic just because I always found it was just hype by those who had spent a lot of money on a lot of bullshit propaganda. I was sure that the Virus was the shitz and schnitzel, only that it was a bit too aggressive for my taste, and thus I got into building synths from there.

One day I attended a test of two 7000€ Neve prototype EQs. It wasn't easy to describe but it was obvious that any material sent through these just sounded better than without, even if the EQ was left in its neutral position.

What it meant to me was, the subjective perception of "better" or "warmer" whatsoever was related to whatever those EQs did when they actually shouldn't do anything. The answer was simple: Non-linear behavior of transformers and whatever else active elements were present. Not just one single distortion, but an array of just the right transfer curves, carefully selected to create that extra sheen.

Now, despite all the hahoo of Diva's zero-delay-feedback filters, the main source of Diva's sound - which is also present when the resonance is not turned up - is an array of non-linear elements throughout the signal path. It creates a caboodle of intermodulation distortion that's carefully laid out over the spectrum. It matches the nonlinear behavior of its analogue counterparts pretty closely, and it's the main reason for Diva's CPU hunger. Because there are plentiful of distortion units, we needed to upsample and downsample each single module to avoid excessive aliasing. This in my opinion resembles what had happened with that Neve EQ.

That is what it is. Carefully laid out nonlinear elements.

that explanation makes more sense. However, when I tried the demo I did not have the impression that is was any better than the VSTs I had. And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned (and for sure, there are many more).

[pdxindy]

The only thing I don't like is the fact that anyone who goes against the grain seems to come under a barrage of BS to prove their opinions wrong.

This is false... YOU are getting responses cause you are making ridiculous claims about what others (majority of edm producers) like instead of just speaking for yourself. Lots of people in this thread said they didn't particularly like Diva and nobody responded at all.

But you are a manipulative person and have an agenda in this thread and people pick up on it.

[hakey]

the term "warm" is used metaphorically (that is: shifted from one domain to another) - and in a way which does not mean anything to me.

So when someone is described as having a warm personality, the metaphor has no meaning to you?

[Bronto Scorpio]

that explanation makes more sense. However, when I tried the demo I did not have the impression that is was any better than the VSTs I had.

That's cool! No need to convince everyone that it's a bad synth though. Some like it, some don't. That's it.

And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned...

It can't.
There many small non-linearities in Divas signal path. Not just one obvious distortion at the output.

Cheers
Dennis

[Urs]

that explanation makes more sense. However, when I tried the demo I did not have the impression that is was any better than the VSTs I had. And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned (and for sure, there are many more).

Well, I don't know any of those tools, and it wasn't our goal to make a VST that is "better" whatsoever. We just wanted to replicate the behavior of a bunch of analogue synths. And that we did.

We could have added multistage envelopes, we could have added wave dividers, we could have added bit crushers and whatever else might have made her a more modern or "better" synth. But that wasn't the goal. We simply wanted to create a synth that is as true to our hardware counterparts as we possibly could, despite the mix & match approach.

Those who look for that seem to find it in Diva. Those who do not look for that won't.

[hakey]

And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned

I don't think you understand what Urs meant by non-linearity.

[AKJ]

Diva, beyong its sound, also for me has a wonderful interface, good preset browser, flexible scalable quality settings (including switching out modules, voice settings, etc.) It really was the synth I was looking for when I found it. Now I totally understand how my preferences aren't shared by all others, but some people really seem to have unwarranted animosity for it just because it is so well received. To me that is not a good reason to dislike a synth. But as they say, opinions are like assholes, and there are lots of opinions on kvr

I do not have any problem to be an asshole - metaphorically speaking. Actually, assholes are desperately needed. You will realize it as soon as yours is closed....

back on topic: I have no problem if people do like their tools. But I cannot stand it if
a) things are over-hyped to an extent where it becomes ridiculous
b) when people who do not share this opinion are dissed

Actually, I have seen it so many times that a new shiny tools arrives and people are saying: oh, this is now like real analog. Sure, in one or two years there will be another hype. I would much prefer to see more really innovative approaches in synth design. One of the very rare examples in the last years coming right now into my mind being Synplant - which I, unfortunately, not (yet) own.

[AKJ]

And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned

I don't think you understand what Urs meant by non-linearity.

I understand it well and I am aware that the tools mentioned cannot produce the same kind of non-linearity, however, from my demo experience I tend to believe that that kind of non-linearity is not needed (at least not for my purposes)

[standalone]

btw, I will reveal now my secret weapons in order to achieve that special touch-sound in synths:

a) Unstable by de la mancha: http://www.delamancha.co.uk/unstable.htm
(not really about warmness, but really cool for pitch instability fx if you like it lofi - which I do at times)

b) Metallurgy by ugo: http://www.ugoaudio.com/plug-ins/metallurgy
this is really such a wonderful tool for any sound designer. A real must.

cheers, akj

You like Synthedit-powered lo-fi? Nice, staying away from Diva is the right decision then. Can we all move on?

have you actually tried those plugins. Or is it just your stupid prejudice? I own a lot of non-synthedit "creative" plugins (like CamelPhat, CamelSpace, iZotope Spectron, iZotope Trash, Ohmicide etc., etc.) which are also great, but these two imo stand out for the purposee to give that special touch.

I'm not dismissing that type of sound. I only say that it couldn't be further from what Diva aims to. It's natural that it doesn't get your interest. What is not natural is your insistence in asking people to give you reasons of Diva's greatness. You will never admit a single argument that people who like Diva gives you.

I know it because I have seen a lot of Omnisphere threads and this one is just the same: you say "prove me wrong" but you won't give a damm about anything that they are going to tell you. You are determined to say "no" everytime.

And about "stupid prejudices", congratulations on starting the name-calling, I knew that this was your main interest here.

[1-2-Many]

that explanation makes more sense. However, when I tried the demo I did not have the impression that is was any better than the VSTs I had. And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned (and for sure, there are many more).

Well, I don't know any of those tools, and it wasn't our goal to make a VST that is "better" whatsoever. We just wanted to replicate the behavior of a bunch of analogue synths. And that we did.

We could have added multistage envelopes, we could have added wave dividers, we could have added bit crushers and whatever else might have made her a more modern or "better" synth. But that wasn't the goal. We simply wanted to create a synth that is as true to our hardware counterparts as we possibly could, despite the mix & match approach.

Those who look for that seem to find it in Diva. Those who do not look for that won't.

Well Put!

As for the "bunch of analog synths" it replicates, is there a list anywhere of which ones you specifically targeted?

[Urs]

that explanation makes more sense. However, when I tried the demo I did not have the impression that is was any better than the VSTs I had. And non-linearity can also be achieved by the two tools I mentioned (and for sure, there are many more).

Well, I don't know any of those tools, and it wasn't our goal to make a VST that is "better" whatsoever. We just wanted to replicate the behavior of a bunch of analogue synths. And that we did.

We could have added multistage envelopes, we could have added wave dividers, we could have added bit crushers and whatever else might have made her a more modern or "better" synth. But that wasn't the goal. We simply wanted to create a synth that is as true to our hardware counterparts as we possibly could, despite the mix & match approach.

Those who look for that seem to find it in Diva. Those who do not look for that won't.

Well Put!
As for the "bunch of analog synths" it replicates, is there a list anywhere of which ones you specifically targeted?

We're trying not to be specific to avoid violating trademarks (we've actually contacted the trademark owners in question, but we're probably not "important" enough to talk to)

Nevertheless, some reviews got it right, and the "templates" folder contains some pretty obvious hints.

[AKJ]

btw, I will reveal now my secret weapons in order to achieve that special touch-sound in synths:

a) Unstable by de la mancha: http://www.delamancha.co.uk/unstable.htm
(not really about warmness, but really cool for pitch instability fx if you like it lofi - which I do at times)

b) Metallurgy by ugo: http://www.ugoaudio.com/plug-ins/metallurgy
this is really such a wonderful tool for any sound designer. A real must.

cheers, akj

You like Synthedit-powered lo-fi? Nice, staying away from Diva is the right decision then. Can we all move on?

have you actually tried those plugins. Or is it just your stupid prejudice? I own a lot of non-synthedit "creative" plugins (like CamelPhat, CamelSpace, iZotope Spectron, iZotope Trash, Ohmicide etc., etc.) which are also great, but these two imo stand out for the purposee to give that special touch.

I'm not dismissing that type of sound. I only say that it couldn't be further from what Diva aims to. It's natural that it doesn't get your interest. What is not natural is your insistence in asking people to give you reasons of Diva's greatness. You will never admit a single argument that people who like Diva gives you.

I know it because I have seen a lot of Omnisphere threads and this one is just the same: you say "prove me wrong" but you won't give a damm about anything that they are going to tell you. You are determined to say "no" everytime.

And about "stupid prejudices", congratulations on starting the name-calling, I knew that this was your main interest here.

I am actually not at all insisting on people giving reasons for Diva's greatness. But if people make claims like: it is warmer and phater etc. I insist on defining what they mean by these terms.

This thread was started by a person who is a potential buyer and who was interested also in critical opinons on Diva. I never said it was a bad product, but I gave my critical impression that it is imo over-hyped not to my ears not better than other products. I have no probolem if you like it best of all, but it is strange that you cannot accept that I had a different impression when testing it (maybe, having a different taste and preferences).

ps: every prejudice is stupid and thus I am guilty of a pleonasm. Still, it should be obvious that I made my judgment on demoing Diva while you just rely on prejudice and diss tools you never tried.

[braj]

I do not have any problem to be an asshole - metaphorically speaking. Actually, assholes are desperately needed. You will realize it as soon as yours is closed....

back on topic: I have no problem if people do like their tools. But I cannot stand it if
a) things are over-hyped to an extent where it becomes ridiculous
b) when people who do not share this opinion are dissed

I'm not dissing anyone, and I'm including myself in the asshole section, everyone has an opinion and everyone can be an asshole at times. We usually don't know in the moment when we are though. Btw I don't feel Diva is overhyped at all, just one assholes opinion to be sure, but it seems a pretty dumb reason not to like something.