Kemper vs Line6 "Dream Rig" (was: Which tube guitar pre?)

[zerocrossing]

I'm sorry to say that, but "all tubes preamp" won't make much difference. You need a tube power amp to make a difference, and a Shure SM-57 Mic, for instance, or one of the large capsule condensers like AKG C-214 or SE 2200A for a huge sound.

Rather save some more and buy a decent power amp. REALLY.

Yeah, I know they don't come cheap. But the difference is worth it IMHO.

Just my 1.5 humble c...

I'm coming to this exact conclusion.

[zerocrossing]

No one? Nothing?

[wasi]

Just go out and play them to death. As in a very long time and on several occasions, not just half an hour, once. Ask if you can borrow one for a gig or something.

I'm personally sceptical the Kemper can live up to its price tag out in the wild, it seems like a hot-rodded amp plugin from a purely consumer perspective (who cares what the tech behind it is). Line6 makes great and affordable stuff and it may be the best of bost worlds (or as close as you can get), as opposed to the best of one world with the Kemper...

It's also what you feel comfortable with using. Too many options can leave you frustrated (yeah, no kidding).

[polaris20]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

[Hink]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

I dont know about the Randall cab but my Jet City ISO cab is not boxy at all

[Uncle E]

Just go out and play them to death. As in a very long time and on several occasions, not just half an hour, once. Ask if you can borrow one for a gig or something.

That's what a 30-day return policy is for. FWIW, I've used the Kemper with monitors and headphones, it sounded great in both usages, but I've never used it for live performance.

I'm personally sceptical the Kemper can live up to its price tag out in the wild, it seems like a hot-rodded amp plugin from a purely consumer perspective (who cares what the tech behind it is).

IMO, Amplitube and Guitar Rig don't even sound as good as bad tube amps. The Kemper sounds as good as or better than many boutique amps.

Line6 makes great and affordable stuff and it may be the best of bost worlds (or as close as you can get), as opposed to the best of one world with the Kemper...

Jack of all trades, master of none? Actually, I do like that you can put the Pod HD 300 into effects only mode, given that a lot of people (not me) are fans of their effects pedals. AFAIK, the 400 and 500 can't do that, am I correct on that?

[Hink]

Just go out and play them to death. As in a very long time and on several occasions, not just half an hour, once. Ask if you can borrow one for a gig or something.

That's what a 30-day return policy is for. FWIW, I've used the Kemper with monitors and headphones, it sounded great in both usages, but I've never used it for live performance.

I'm personally sceptical the Kemper can live up to its price tag out in the wild, it seems like a hot-rodded amp plugin from a purely consumer perspective (who cares what the tech behind it is).

IMO, Amplitube and Guitar Rig don't even sound as good as bad tube amps. The Kemper sounds as good as or better than many boutique amps.

Line6 makes great and affordable stuff and it may be the best of bost worlds (or as close as you can get), as opposed to the best of one world with the Kemper...

Jack of all trades, master of none? Actually, I do like that you can put the Pod HD 300 into effects only mode, given that a lot of people (not me) are fans of their effects pedals. AFAIK, the 400 and 500 can't do that, am I correct on that?

I'm not skeptical of Kemper myself, I'm not doubting it but I'm not buying it...not yet anyhow. Not by my choice but because of how things were I was the same way with POD. I didn't buy the first one because I wasn't interested yet (then I went to a store that carried Line 6 and the girl who was the regional rep was not only very cool and beautiful but she could really play the guitar. I went to another store and she was the rep there too (the guys all told me about the line six rep and how shocked I would be but they were the ones caught off guard when she came in, saw me, called out my name saying "this is where you went" and gave me a big hug )

The first POD turned to POD 2.0, somewhere in there was an upgrade to the original POD but I bought 2.0. If I had then what I have now I would have never bought a POD or be looking at the HD as my first. (dont get me wrong, with both PODs I have xt live and 2.0 I have got a lot of practical use from them) My problem right now with Kemper is very simple, like the POD, like the iPad and like so many other things if the Kemper is as good as it seems (and I believe it is) there will be newer models coming down the road. I do not want to get stuck with that price tag only to want to spend that much or more in a year or two on the next version.

Like I said, if I had what I have now I would have been this way with the POD...call me cold hearted but I think I'll sit and wait until they iron out the kinks (if there are any, if there are not than who knows) before jumping onboard. Once again, what if it breaks? It wont be cheap to repair I'm sure, so Eric...you're my guinnea pig

I ahte to say this but I did this with Tusc amps too in the 80s, my best friend new I liked them, he beat me to the punch and bought one and I hated it (I did buy a 2x12 with fanes from Tusc though)...he hated it too

[zerocrossing]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

I dont know about the Randall cab but my Jet City ISO cab is not boxy at all

It's a matter of taste, no? No offence Hink, but I've absolutey hated every demo of the Jet City. Felt ok about the Randall, and really liked the Silent Sister... Though at $1000 it's a bit crazy.

[polaris20]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

I dont know about the Randall cab but my Jet City ISO cab is not boxy at all

I didn't like either one of them, tbh. But to each their own, I guess. I found them to be a lot of fuss for little to no return over just using a Palmer PDI-09 or a speaker impulse.

If I were hell bent on recording my exact amp's tone, I'd continue using the amp into a load, then to RedWirez impulses, or perhaps check out the new Torpedo Live.

[Uncle E]

so Eric...you're my guinnea pig

hehe. Happily!

[Hink]

no offense taken about the iso cab, the only examples I posted were configured the same way with different amps and that was just a short time after getting the cab. I've been using it for 6 months now and have learned a lot, this is why I really dont like making demos of everything right when I get them. That iso cab has been a blessing for me and I wont be getting rid of it anytime soon nor am I married to it. I still have a 4x12 I can mic as well, just not at night when the wife is sleeping because it's in the bedroom closet

I'm not done buying speakers and cabs either

[zerocrossing]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

The point you made is pretty consistent with my findings. As far as I can tell, the Jet City Iso Cab sounds horrible. The Randal sounds OK, but nothing to write home about. The only one that really made me feel like I was listening to a well miced nice guitar cab was the very expensive Rivera Silent Sister.

So... (drumroll please!) I went with the Kemper. I just ordered one from www.jrrshop.com. Exciting! I'm pretty sure this is the most expensive guitar tech I've ever owned including both my Steinbergers. (got them used)

Here's how I came to my conclusion. First, I want to say that in listening to demos, I'm not sure the Kemper had a discernible edge to the POD HD500/DT25 set up. In fact, one of the favorite sounds I found was from the Line6 set up. However, that sound was from a Line6 cabinet that had been mic'd. I think the only way I could get close to that sound quality was with a POD HD500/DT25 into a Rivera Silent Sister and that would have pushed me out of my budget.

Now, I may actually still go for a POD HD of some flavor (or another device?) to use in the Kemper's effects loop and as a controller. I'm a bit worried about the tweakability of the "profiles" in the Kemper. I'm going to hold off until I get it though to see if it's needed. There's no doubt I have plenty of effects processing power in plug ins, and I can always use my Lexicon MPX-1 if need be.

So I guess I'm a guinea pig with ya Eric.

[Hink]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

I dont know about the Randall cab but my Jet City ISO cab is not boxy at all

I didn't like either one of them, tbh. But to each their own, I guess. I found them to be a lot of fuss for little to no return over just using a Palmer PDI-09 or a speaker impulse.

If I were hell bent on recording my exact amp's tone, I'd continue using the amp into a load, then to RedWirez impulses, or perhaps check out the new Torpedo Live.

one of my amps has a line out that is post power transformer and if you disconnect the speaker a dummy load goes across the speaker out. So it gives you power tube distortion as well, into IRs and works very well. I also have a Weber Attenuator with a line out though I'm not thrilled with the line out (Eric has made an interesting suggestion though that could change that). The palmer looks interesting but tbh the torpedo live is more to my liking and surely on my list.

BTW the line out like on my amp is actually a very easy mod (but without the dummy load, you would still need something for that) for almost any tube amp. Weber sells a kit but one has to wonder if the kit is really needed as we are not talking about a lot of parts. It's not an fx loop, it's a line out that takes some of the speaker out signal and knocks it down.

Still the iso cabs has it's place and I love it, I still want to build one with adjustable baffles and user configurable acoustic foam (using velcro). I have the plans all drawn up, just waiting not to be lazy and go to my friend's house to cut the wood...which means maybe next year at my rate of speed

[Hink]

So... I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'll be happy half assing this endeavor. I'm going full ass!

Do I go Kemper or pod hd500/dt25/Randall iso cab? It'll probably never leave my studio.

Never leaving your studio? Then I'd go either Kemper or an AxeFX, and then an FRFR cab for jamming. The Randall is just going to sound too boxy, and when it comes to recording both the Kemper and Axe kill.

I love my POD HD500 too, and if you don't want to drop the coin on the first too, it's a really good option as well. I'm not personally convinced that a "real tube power amp" is going to be that discernable in a recording these days. The modelers (IMO) have gotten that good.

I play a Mesa DC-5, but generally I spend most of the time plugged into the HD for recording.

The point you made is pretty consistent with my findings. As far as I can tell, the Jet City Iso Cab sounds horrible. The Randal sounds OK, but nothing to write home about. The only one that really made me feel like I was listening to a well miced nice guitar cab was the very expensive Rivera Silent Sister.

So... (drumroll please!) I went with the Kemper. I just ordered one from www.jrrshop.com. Exciting! I'm pretty sure this is the most expensive guitar tech I've ever owned including both my Steinbergers. (got them used)

Here's how I came to my conclusion. First, I want to say that in listening to demos, I'm not sure the Kemper had a discernible edge to the POD HD500/DT25 set up. In fact, one of the favorite sounds I found was from the Line6 set up. However, that sound was from a Line6 cabinet that had been mic'd. I think the only way I could get close to that sound quality was with a POD HD500/DT25 into a Rivera Silent Sister and that would have pushed me out of my budget.

Now, I may actually still go for a POD HD of some flavor (or another device?) to use in the Kemper's effects loop and as a controller. I'm a bit worried about the tweakability of the "profiles" in the Kemper. I'm going to hold off until I get it though to see if it's needed. There's no doubt I have plenty of effects processing power in plug ins, and I can always use my Lexicon MPX-1 if need be.

So I guess I'm a guinea pig with ya Eric.

congrats ZC, I hope you love it (I'm sure you will)

[blueman]

So... (drumroll please!) I went with the Kemper. I just ordered one from www.jrrshop.com. Exciting! I'm pretty sure this is the most expensive guitar tech I've ever owned including both my Steinbergers. (got them used)

Good luck! I'm anxious to hear your review and hope you will make a video or share some sound clips with us. At the very least, please report your findings