What are Scala tuning files?

[jancivil]

so. there are actually musical systems in the world that eschew this temperament in favor of obtaining these concords... or for obtaining other effects for emotional resonance.

that ~14¢ sharp result is 'less settled' than the pure (simple, 5:4, 'just') concord that is the fifth partial. It might be useful because it's more active, more tense. you might have a 'major third' kind of interval that's even more so...

in other words there are more than 12 tones within an octave [that have been found useful] to obtain your emotional effects.

maybe all 12 are 'good', but there may be others that make the effect 'better'; as though there are other 'colors' than these. The 12 tone equal temperament would be like having a palette with only 12 colors. to make a richer painting you would tend to say more = more as far as having a palette.

[canadianlight]

So does this require some time-stretching algorithm in a sampler/player to perform?

[Aroused by JarJar]

So does this require some time-stretching algorithm in a sampler/player to perform?

The samplers that support microtuning simply play the samples back at a different (microtuned) rate. Kontakt does this excellently using the scripts generated by the program found here:

http://12equalboresme.com/

Scala will also export Kontakt scripts, and that would be free instead of 12 USD but I do not know if these scripts map the altered pitches to sample mapping so well, and the Scala script does not have the extra features (switching between tunings in performance, etc.).

Synthesizers that support the .tun format simply assign different frequencies than standard to MIDI note numbers, so it's "perfect", unlike with samplers, where you could (theoretically) say that a sample set that has samples on every key (MIDI note number) that are pre-tuned to 12-tET, and therefore have no altered playback rate when playing in 12-tET, sounds better than one than has been microtuned and therefore has altered playback rate on each sample. With sample sets that alter playback whatever the tuning (say sets that have one sample per octave) it doesn't make a difference whether it's microtuned or not, the samples have altered pitches anyway.

[canadianlight]

So for samplers only no "timestretching" is involved, but just playing the samples back at a faster or slower speed?

But aren't all samples in principle the same as loops because they are all recorded sounds? So why would timestretching be necessary for one and not the other? For example, will playing a pizzicato slower turn it into a sustain patch because the briskness is lost?

2. Are those scripts that Scala exports the equivalent of simply inputting the numbers in Kontakt's microtuning window? So for 12 tone scales, you don't seem to need any scripts, but rather just manually dail in the cent deviation that scala tells you.



(that's not me, but this is the window I'm talking about.)


3. So the above two practices do not in any way involve the tonemachine, timemachines right? The whole purpose of me asking here is to know if I have to buy kontakt 5 for the new "timemachine pro" because NI says it's vastly improved from what K4 offers. I thought microtuning is the same thing as pitch/time stretching. That's the only concern I have with K4, other than that I have no interest in what K5 offers at this moment.

Thanks.

[jancivil]

2. Are those scripts that Scala exports the equivalent of simply inputting the numbers in Kontakt's microtuning window? So for 12 tone scales, you don't seem to need any scripts, but rather just manually dail in the cent deviation that scala tells you.

intonations derived by ratios are not based in cents, which is a measurement of equal temperament, 1200 cents/12 = a semitone. so any system that seeks to accurately do that area of microtuning should not use cents as a basis. you'll get insufficent results; ratios described in a system that is irrational [In twelve-tone equal temperament, which divides the octave into 12 equal parts, the width of a semitone, i.e. the frequency ratio of the interval between two adjacent notes, is the twelfth root of two].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temp ... emperament

[jancivil]

The whole purpose of me asking here is to know if I have to buy kontakt 5 for the new "timemachine pro" because NI says it's vastly improved from what K4 offers. I thought microtuning is the same thing as pitch/time stretching. That's the only concern I have with K4, other than that I have no interest in what K5 offers at this moment.

I have used scripts which provide alternate tunings and in no case were those two things activated and they worked.

as a practical matter... (first of all I've never used the scala which is difficult to install to OSX, let alone examined it) the deviations describing it by cents is not going to be something most users will notice. but if scala seeks to be purist about it they'd work with frequencies as messured from the results of ratios when using rational intonationa.

[Aroused by JarJar]

So for samplers only no "timestretching" is involved, but just playing the samples back at a faster or slower speed?

But aren't all samples in principle the same as loops because they are all recorded sounds? So why would timestretching be necessary for one and not the other? For example, will playing a pizzicato slower turn it into a sustain patch because the briskness is lost?

Sure a sampler could use timestretching, granular resynthesis or additive analysis and resynthesis. Tuning files don't contain any information or instructions about this, they simply tell the sampler or synth what frequency belongs to what MIDI note-number. If you look at a .scl or .tun in a text editor, you'll see that it is extremely simple.

2. Are those scripts that Scala exports the equivalent of simply inputting the numbers in Kontakt's microtuning window? So for 12 tone scales, you don't seem to need any scripts, but rather just manually dail in the cent deviation that scala tells you.

Sure, you can do that. It is extremely limited compared to the possibiities, but it works the same.

3. So the above two practices do not in any way involve the tonemachine, timemachines right? The whole purpose of me asking here is to know if I have to buy kontakt 5 for the new "timemachine pro" because NI says it's vastly improved from what K4 offers. I thought microtuning is the same thing as pitch/time stretching. That's the only concern I have with K4, other than that I have no interest in what K5 offers at this moment.

Thanks.

Nope, the tonmachine stuff isn't necessary. If a sampler implements timestretching well, that's a good thing in general, of course.

[canadianlight]

With the standard modes like the DFD, how does Kontakt work to preserve the audio signatures of the notes? Companies like Antares made a business for themselves just by releasing pitch altering software.

Nope, the tonmachine stuff isn't necessary. If a sampler implements timestretching well, that's a good thing in general, of course.

Kontakt does not say how it implements timestretching if you don't choose the tone/time machines.