One-Synth-Challenge 41: Minimogue - Submissions and gossip

[gunnare]

The memorymoon saws has oversampled MiniBlep technology by Attila Fustos. And the other waveforms have extended wavetables. (I think Antti helped a little in that oscillator.) It is the best I can possibly get, I think the Diva oscillator has MinBlep technology. And I think the Arturias have oversampled wavetables.


Patch 5 Squelchy Square sounds like aliasing, but it is created by horrible detuning and distortion effect.

The problem in Messiah oscillator was not aliasing, but lacking bass response in the low register, that could create a dull sound. I changed the oscillators to double wavememory and double amount of harmonics ca. 2 months ago. That helps a lot, and the sound is now clearer and has more body. It is not perfect, but the CPU to sound ratio is very good. You can download the new version with your old download links.

One thing that could sound better is when the Messiah flexi oscillator is in ring mod or phase dist mode. That will be taken care of with oversampling. I have a version with oversampling on my machine, but will not release it until I know that it works on all systems. I have no problems with it on my machine. The flexi osc wave A and B modulating each other sounds much better with oversampling. Just 4X oversampling is needed for a good sound.

The ME80 has so long wavetables that it is insane to be able to go all the way down to 0.00001 hz. Braj had a question about RAM. This is what eats RAM when using ME80. And the 22 Yamaha presets that has to be stored in every patch, in addition to all the parameters in the synth itself takes a lot of RAM.

I think it is not something I can improve- it is the best oscillators I can possible get. I worked with Chris Kerry when he wrote the wavetable oscillators, and tested the highest registers over and over again, we did as good as we possibly could. A session musician in Germany has stated that he can hear no aliasing in the oscillators.

I think aliasing might rather come from the distortion stages: Memroymoon has overdrive in the mixer when level is above 5 (50 on the lcd), and filter2 has overdrive, and there is an overdrive effect. When all this is switched on it leads to aliasing. Distortion is the first thing that will sound like aliasing in a digital synth. So in memorymoon it is a good thing to not use all distortion options in a single patch.

All the best
gunnare

[IrionDaRonin]

Yes V'ger i do have the same problem like irion when i close down fl studio , but during playing have no problem so far , has it something to do that i still use
a older computer pentium 4 ?
I use mouge va and mouge luxus in combination so far no problem .

With regards

Fabrizio

Nothing in common with older PCs, and in fact, your PC should be even better for old synths, normally an old PC is single core and i'm sure you are using a 32 bit operative system, so you shouldn't have problem with that. The same about me when i had the ancient antique dinosaur i got some months ago.

It's a direct thing between the synth and FL Studio, noone more has this problem in other daws, well, they got another kind of problems.

Good luck guys

[mr president]

The memorymoon saws has oversampled MiniBlep technology by Attila Fustos. And the other waveforms has extended wavetables. (I think Antti helped a little in that oscillator.) It is the best I can possibly get, I think the Diva oscillator has MinBlep technology. And I think the Arturias have oversampled wavetables.


Patch 5 Squelchy Square sounds like aliasing, but it is created by horrible detuning and distortion effect.

The problem in Messiah oscillator was not aliasing, but lacking bass response in the low register, that could create a dull sound. I changed the oscillators to double wavememory and double amount of harmonics ca. 2 months ago. That helps a lot, and the sound is now clearer and has more body. It is not perfect, but the CPU to sound ratio is very good. You can download the new version with your old download links.

The ME80 has so long wavetables that it is insane to be able to go all the way down to 0.00001 hz. Baj had a question about RAM. This is what eats RAM when using ME80. And the 22 Yamaha presets that has to be stored in every patch, in addition to all the parameters in the synth itself takes a lot of RAM.

I think it is not something I can improve- it is the best oscillators I can possible get. I worked with Chris Kerry when he wrote the wavetable oscillators, and tested the highest registers over and over again, we did as good as we possibly could. A session musician in Germany has stated that he can hear no aliasing in the oscillators.

I think aliasing might rather come from the distortion stages: Memroymoon has overdrive in the mixer when level is above 5 (50 on the lcd), and filter2 has overdrive, and there is an overdrive effect. When all this is switched on it leads to aliasing. Distortion is the first thing that will sound like aliasing in a digital synth.

All the best
gunnare

I get what youre saying, the only thing that i want is a smoother filter in messiah and a reverse envelope on the filter, akin to native instruments pro 53. I noticed the sound isnt far off because the filter is lot stronger in color on the messiah. When i tried to get a silky smooth saw lead out of messiah and memorymoon in contrast to the me80 bladerunner preset its nigh on impossible. Is there any way to do this or do i have to buy Me80(which i am anyway soon) ...Answers please and i also hear Gunnare loves Jesus, would this be Jesus Jones 1980's pop icon or in similar name to a certain synthesizer. Hmmm i wonder??? either way..God bless you and your good work now get on with that smooth filter and reverse envelope feature, and how do i affect cut off with the mod wheel? i cant find it anywhere

[gunnare]

Minimogue mod-wheel to cutoff: When osc 3 is in VCO mode the "oscillator modulation" knobs sets the level. I implemented the feature sunday 3. june 2012.

Osc3 in MOD mode: Oscillator modulation is pitch modulation.
Osc3 in VCO mode: Osicllator modulation is cutoff modulation. (otherwise mod wheel would do nothing when Osc3 is in VCO mode).

The memorymoon synths shares no sound generating components, so you cannot make a ME80 patch in Memorymoon. It is completely different. And the synthesis system is also different. The Yamaha CS synths are in reality bandpass synths. (highpass and lowpass filter makes a bandpassfilter). And ME80 has a very strange velocity envelope, and rescaled aftertouch after the US Patents. And there is a special resonance response. But it should be possible to get a decent Bladerunner sound from all synths with some saws and a very good reverb. 50% of that sound is the quality of the reverb.

Gunnare loves Jesus, would this be Jesus Jones 1980's pop icon or in similar name to a certain synthesizer.
He, no, it is personal. So I think it dont belong to KVR. (Or Meffy will get me, I think he will come soon if we continue to dicuss off topic.)

Negative envelopes would be possible, I got used to negative env in another sofsynth, and the new Moog Minitaur has negative envelopes.
Yes the Messiah filter is powerful and not as smooth as memorymoon. I like that it is so punchy. Andrew's new non linear zero delay filter is more silky. I tried to put it in MinimogueVA. Messiah is built to be very low CPU. I love that it works so well on atom CPUs , notebooks and V-machine. A new filter would be much more CPU demanding.

Allt he best
gunnare

[mr president]

Minimogue mod-wheel to cutoff: When osc 3 is in VCO mode the "oscillator modulation" knobs sets the level.

Osc3 in MOD mode: Oscillator modulation is pitch modulation.
Osc3 in VCO mode: Osicllator modulation is cutoff modulation. (otherwise mod wheel would do nothing when Osc3 is in VCO mode).

The memorymoon synths shares no sound generating components, so you cannot make a ME80 patch in Memorymoon. It is completely different. And the synthesis system is also different. The Yamaha CS synths are in reality bandpass synths. (highpass and lowpass filter makes a bandpassfilter). And ME80 has a very strange velocity envelope, and rescaled aftertouch after the US Patents. And there is a special resonance response. But it should be possible to get a decent Bladerunner sound from all synths with some saws and a very good reverb. 50% of that sound is the quality of the reverb.

Gunnare loves Jesus, would this be Jesus Jones 1980's pop icon or in similar name to a certain synthesizer.
He, no, it is personal. So I think it dont belong to KVR. (Or Meffy will get me, I think he will come soon if we continue to dicuss off topic.)

Negative envelopes would be possible, I got used to negative env in another sofsynth, and the new Moog Minitaur has negative envelopes.
Yes the Messiah filter is powerful and not so smooth as memorymoon. I like that it is so punchy. Andrew's new non linear zero delay filter is more silky. I tried to put it in MinimogueVA. Messiah is built to be very low CPU. I love that it works so well on atom CPUs , notebooks and V-machine. A new filter would be much more CPU demanding.

Allt he best
gunnare

Danke

[mr president]

Thanks for the info and youre sure right about messiahs filter being punchy, wouldnt mind that negative envelope though if you would when you get time, thanks in advance.Its been a pleasure to talk to you. I first started using your minimogue synth about 10 years ago and couldnt stop playing the "AHEM" preset mentioned above in solo leads, really smooth and creamy with a super glide to it.
Ill get in touch for an me80 in a couple of days, its not that far off the arturia CE80. Top quality...good stuff

[SKYZONE]

Yes V'ger i do have the same problem like irion when i close down fl studio , but during playing have no problem so far , has it something to do that i still use
a older computer pentium 4 ?
I use mouge va and mouge luxus in combination so far no problem .

With regards

Fabrizio

Nothing in common with older PCs, and in fact, your PC should be even better for old synths, normally an old PC is single core and i'm sure you are using a 32 bit operative system, so you shouldn't have problem with that. The same about me when i had the ancient antique dinosaur i got some months ago.

It's a direct thing between the synth and FL Studio, noone more has this problem in other daws, well, they got another kind of problems.

Good luck guys

Yes that is so a'm using 32 bit and you have a point there , it is between the synth and fl studio.........hopefully the software developer find a way out .
wish you good luck ,meanwhile sampling is a option i did it before .

Fabrizio

[gunnare]

I will keep you informed. There is obviously a bug when using the latest MinimogueVA with FL-studio.

[V'ger]

Agree with the praise about Memorymoon synths and I've been saying long before Minimogue was put on here and Memorymoon sponsoring that it's hard to find better bang for the buck.

[dwringer]

Just wanted to report in after some more tests on this end. Not only does the sound seem to get corrupted from some patches when running multiple oversampled instances, but there appears to be something tying up more CPU cycles than what's reasonable. A memory leak directly into the processor stack, if you will; not that I have any clue what's actually going on. I had four instances running, all at 32x oversampling (just begging for corruption and failure, haha). It was working alright for a while, never exceeding about 65% on the CPU meter. I may have actually turned down the oversampling to 2x or 4x on one of the tracks, IIRC. Then after some tracking/mixing/not sure of the actual procedure used, one of the tracks' wave data started coming out heavily distorted and full of garbage, for lack of a better word. The CPU meter was now at 99%, and it stayed there even after clicking determinedly on the STOP button

I went through the synths one by one turning off oversampling, and each time i watched the CPU drop a bit, then by the fourth, it dropped back down to a healthy 1 or 2%, where it usually idles.


EDIT:
Also just realized: when I have more than one open instance that uses polyphony, and I set one of the tracks to be oversampled, it appears to "steal" the extra voices from the other instances. Quite obvious if I set the alternate instance to have a glide and spell out some chords with the sustain pedal down, the sounds cascade as you'd expect normally but start bending up at each step when the bug appears.

[adagiocm]

I'm observing some stability issues with Sonar Producer 7 as well (on WinXP 32-bit). It crashed just recently with only 2 Minimogue VA instances in the project. The CPU is a 5-year old Core 2 Duo. Multiprocessing and 64-bit engine are enabled in Sonar. I will try disabling the 64-bit engine and see if it is more stable that way.

[___loser]

one quick question, are we allowed to draw/record modulation from within daw ?

[z.prime]

one quick question, are we allowed to draw/record modulation from within daw ?

Yes, automation of the synth parameters is fine.

[dwringer]

one quick question, are we allowed to draw/record modulation from within daw ?

Yes, automation of the synth parameters is fine.

So far this synth LOVES that compared to most VA's. The first one I ever had was a Korg Electribe, which made it BLATANTLY obvious where most negative sound due to being "digital" comes from, and the vast majority of it is in the dynamics of the thing - what it sounds like when you try to make evolving sounds or add humanity to it. Sounds are always inherently static no matter how much we dress them up, electronic music becomes human through our own application of expression to it. That's the difference between digital and analog; analog is working with a much more natural frequency spectrum so it works like an acoustic instrument in that regard. For your money - free - I don't think you can get better than this

[___loser]

sweeet, thank you for your replys.