Fatboy Slim thoughts about software synths

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Teksonik wrote:
Vectorman wrote: It's made me start re-thinking which analog synths are really worth messing with for me in 2012.
That would be none....they were outdated when I used to sell synths in the late 80's and are simply obsolete now. Time to move on people........ :wheee:
I'm not convinced of that. There are clear technological hurdles that have not been overcome in softsynths yet and the leading developers will tell you as much. Go read the recent thread on DCAM where it's modular abilities are discussed. If you want to talk about diminishing returns for a particular investment, I agree completely. If you want to say that many low end analogs aren't really flexible enough to not be easily trumped by softsynths, then I'd agree there too.

But to say that ALL analog synths are obsolete I think overstates the historic aspect and understates what they actually represent.

The reason we used to focus on analog and now focus on digital is almost entirely driven by cost. Analog is not the old version of what's new, it's simply a technology that's too expensive, for the most part, today. Or, said differently, digital was too expensive, for the most part, yesterday.

All analog synths are, in general (yes I know that there are exceptions, go away pedants), are a realization of the subtractive synthesis model. This model is as valid today as it has ever been. Most (yes, there are exceptions here also, even more, in fact) soft synths are also simply realizations of the subtractive model.

Realizations of the subtractive model all have limitations. For pure hardware (i.e. not firmware in a hardware softsynth) synths, these limitations tend to be about replication of subcircuits and routings, as the marginal cost of another LFO or EG is quite far away from zero. In software, this isn't true, the marginal cost of adding another LFO is fairly low. The limitations in this domain are largely driven by available CPU power, and have to with sampling rates of both audio and control signals, as well as algorithmic limitations that prevent perfect mimicry of a particular module's analog counterpart.

Whether any of these limitations are relevant musically is a different question, but there can be no denial that each realization does, in fact, have limitations, and those realizations do, in fact, affect the ability of that realization to produce particular sounds.

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thecontrolcentre wrote:
Teksonik wrote:they were outdated when I used to sell synths in the late 80's and are simply obsolete now. Time to move on people........ :wheee:
No thanks. I like what my "outdated" analogs produce. YMMV but why the f**k would I care?
No more than I care that you are stuck in the past with obsolete gear...... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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I also want to point out that in the example we're comparing one of the cheapest Moogs with the best software VA. I imagine if we did a MacBeth Micromac at $2226 USD is going to fare even better.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Teksonik wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Teksonik wrote:they were outdated when I used to sell synths in the late 80's and are simply obsolete now. Time to move on people........ :wheee:
No thanks. I like what my "outdated" analogs produce. YMMV but why the f**k would I care?
No more than I care that you are stuck in the past with obsolete gear...... :shrug:
That's very presumptuous. I do use software synths. My analog synths are both old and new, the same as my guitars. Or are they obsolete in your world too?

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Teksonik wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Teksonik wrote:they were outdated when I used to sell synths in the late 80's and are simply obsolete now. Time to move on people........ :wheee:
No thanks. I like what my "outdated" analogs produce. YMMV but why the f**k would I care?
No more than I care that you are stuck in the past with obsolete gear...... :shrug:
I know what you can do, and it's even cheaper and more convenient than using plug-ins. Dig a little hole in some sand and just stuff your head into it! I saw an ostrich do it once... but it may have been a cartoon... :clown:

Calling an analog synth obsolete technology is like calling a violin obsolete technology. What must you think of a drum?! Hitting an animal skin with a wooden stick! :-o
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing wrote: Dig a little hole in some sand and just stuff your head into it!
That's what you ANALog freaks are doing......remember, I've owned analog synths....owned as in past tense...I've moved on...to the future.
Calling an analog synth obsolete technology is like calling a violin obsolete technology.
Not hardly....a very poor ANALogy at best......there is a huge difference between a Violin and Violin samples. There's no practical difference at all between ANALog and VA...well except for crap like this:
you'll hear some weird phasiness or something on Diva.....You can hear what I'm talking about in the highs and mid tones as well. The high frequency is more muddy. Not as sweet sounding".
Hardly worth even mentioning.....especially in a mix.....


By the way I started out just like you.....an old crap guitar and a Synsonic drum machine......apparently our paths diverged somewhere along the line. :P
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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zerocrossing wrote:I also want to point out that in the example we're comparing one of the cheapest Moogs with the best software VA.
The little Phatty is also Monophonic.....and $800 more than DIVA.....unless you want to count the cost of the computer/soundcard DIVA is running on but then I get to use as many instances of DIVA as my CPU can handle....want to play two Lil Phattys? Gotta shell out another $1000 and buy another one.......
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Now it's getting exciting... :box:

Who will win the battle - the ANALog boyz or the DIG-IT-ALL guys?

Ooops, some ANADIGITLOG gals here? :o What have your parents done??

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zerocrossing wrote: What must you think of a drum?! Hitting an animal skin with a wooden stick! :-o
What is a drum? You mean, like, analog drum samples?

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Arglebargle wrote:
zerocrossing wrote: What must you think of a drum?! Hitting an animal skin with a wooden stick! :-o
What is a drum? You mean, like, analog drum samples?
No, no. It's like -- suppose we have a dead horse, and a stick for beating it, see? Wait, that's how "that thread" threads get started, not drumming. My mistake.

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Tricky-Loops wrote:Now it's getting exciting... :box:

Who will win the battle - the ANALog boyz or the DIG-IT-ALL guys?

Ooops, some ANADIGITLOG gals here? :o What have your parents done??
It's not really a battle. Of course software has convenience benefits, hardware has some technology and user interface benefits. To be fair, software also has interface benefits, they're just not the same as hardware.

It seems to me that any extreme position on this must miss some of the subtlety from the other point of view.

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Tricky-Loops wrote:Now it's getting exciting... :box:

Who will win the battle - the ANALog boyz or the DIG-IT-ALL guys?

Ooops, some ANADIGITLOG gals here? :o What have your parents done??
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Noone can win a battle on the internets. :hihi:
Latest release and Socials: https://linktr.ee/ph.i.ltr3

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ghettosynth wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:Now it's getting exciting... :box:

Who will win the battle - the ANALog boyz or the DIG-IT-ALL guys?

Ooops, some ANADIGITLOG gals here? :o What have your parents done??
It's not really a battle. Of course software has convenience benefits, hardware has some technology and user interface benefits. To be fair, software also has interface benefits, they're just not the same as hardware.

It seems to me that any extreme position on this must miss some of the subtlety from the other point of view.
Just another point of view? :hihi: I thought of this song...


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Somebody email this thread to Mr Fatboy, Im sure it will change his mind.

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projectdan wrote:Somebody email this thread to Mr Fatboy, Im sure it will change his mind.
Threads like these always attract critics looking for something cute to say, but, at the same time, not really adding anything to the conversation. I get it, I can be that guy when what I think you're talking about is a waste of time.

Some of us, however, actually enjoy conversations like these, even if they ebb and flow. The reason is that they may lead to insights and different perspectives that are valuable to us.

This thread stopped being about fatboy slim some time ago. FYI.

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