Zebra/Alchemy vs... the world?

[Madrayken]

Okay - I've had the urge to buy yet another software synth recently. I hear that happens sometimes.

I was thinking of getting something a bit more aggressive and digital than my usual fare; perhaps Cyclop or Massive - or even Helix (despite the GUI).

The problem is, I bought both Zebra and Alchemy some time ago. As ever, when I'm tempted to buy a new synth, I have a big guilt trip and go back to these favourite two to see if I can do something that sounds appropriate with them.

So - with Massive in mind - I sat down with Zebra and found that with a little effort, I was getting massively distorted, growly basses and weird jangly leads out of it that weren't a million miles from the synth I was considering. I was surprised. I had assumed that Zebra lacked aggression. I was wrong.

So:

Bar 'workflow/UI' preferences*, has anyone found anything in Massive, Cyclop or Helix that just can't be done with these two? In fact, is there a patch in any non-sample-based synth that can't be made almost identically in Zebra?

This genuinely isn't meant to be flamey-troll-bait, nor hubris. I'm just finding that the major distinction between software synths these days seems to be 'workflow/UI', 'reduced aliasing', or 'decent audio-rate FM'... and that's it.

Am I missing something? Has anyone else found this 'Huh... I'll just do it in Zebra' mentality creeping in?



*Workflow/UI is - of course - an entirely valid reason to prefer to use something over Zebra. In my case, it might not be sufficient to convince me of a purchase, though!

[mcnoone]

Well if you tried the demos out and can't decide.
I would say, getting an analogue modeled subtractive VA and you'll have a lot covered with those three.
Try out the U-he Diva demo, or Gforce Minimonsta, Imposcar2, Tone2 Saurus, Xils PolyKB...
Those may take you in different directions too.

[vurt]

id say hold off, the new xils lab synth sounds interesting enough that it would add to your sound canvas (admittedly theres only one preview track)

if youve tried demos and cant decide then id say definitely leave it for now

[LeVzi]

You said growly basses, so I assume dubstep is in mind, then massive or razor would be my advice.

I've not tried Cyclops but apparantly it does these too.

Zeta+ 2 does a nice growl too.

But massive really is king in this area.

[aMUSEd]

You said growly basses, so I assume dubstep is in mind, then massive or razor would be my advice.

Also Lazerbass

[george]

Check our synths, you might like them.

[coincidental]

Not quite in the aggressive and digital area, but more generally there's Iris. Haven't demoed it yet myself, but it looks like a slightly different take on the spectral stuff compared to Alchemy.

And then there's physical modelling - and String Studio and Chromaphone would be good places to start there. They definitely cover ground that you can't reach in Zebra and Alchemy.

But I do know what you mean!

[EvilDragon]

Need aggressiveness? Look no further - OLGA!

[liquidsound]

Surge!!! And you'll cover everything!

[coincidental]

Need aggressiveness? Look no further - OLGA!

Mmm yes, nothing sounds quite like Olga

[zerocrossing]

Surge!!! And you'll cover everything!

Oh wait... ssssshhhhhh, don't let all the other VSTs in my folder hear you! They'll get nervous!

To the O.P: You're at an odd point. The fulcrum on the line that separates the "I have the tools I need" people from the "I collect tools... it's fun!" I'm not making a jugement on these two types of people. I'm in the tool collector bunch, for sure. I even think of VSTs as entertainment. Meaning, if I get a few nights of fun designing sounds and playing with one and I don't go back to it very often, that's OK. I'm much different with hardware. If I find myself not using something in the real world I have an overwhelming desire to get rid of it. In The Matrix, synths take up no real space and are invisible, except in a list view in my DAW.

So, you're going to get a deluge of "get this synth!" recommendations because we're good at being co-dependent here at KVR, as you've probably already noticed.

Anyway, Zebra and Alchemy cover a lot of ground. Are the two masters of every type of sound? Probably not but you could die of old age never having completely explored their possibilities. There is a reason that Urs developed Diva and ACE after Zebra, but in a sense they're mostly just very fine tuned example of things that can be configured in Zebra. It's like building a Minimoog out of Moog modules... that are similar but not exactly the same. Good enough? That's for you to answer.

I have slowed down a lot with the synth buying though because it can become fatiguing. I'm much more inclined to pass on something like Saurus or Dune than I used to be. At this point the sound has to really be special or the feature set very unique to get me interested. I noticed you have no dedicated FM synth so that could be a fun type of synthesis to explore. I like FM8 more than Massive personally in terms of the sound.

Another option that I'm not sure was mentioned was to get a hardware synth of some sort. These can be a step up on sound quality and can be really fun to work with if they have a good interface. They can be as cheap as software if you look for them used. For example, a used MoPho will probably only set you back $200-300.

[JimmiG]

Personally I think the biggest difference between most software and hardware synths *is* the workflow and UI, which encourages you to think about sounds and program the synths in different ways. Also, don't underestimate the effect of presets on your perception of a synth. First impressions count for a lot, and your first encounter with any new synth will likely be with the presets it comes with.

Sure, there can be major tonal variations between different synths, but oscillators through filters and amps via envelopes and LFO's has been done for half a century or more. Most of the time, a new synth (soft or hard) won't give you "new" sounds, just a different take on old sounds and techniques.

[Madrayken]

This was less of an 'I can't decide'

than a

'Having played with the demos of Massive and Cyclop (bar the sample-manipulation) for some time, I'm rapidly starting to believe there's nothing that can't be done with Zebra. Am I smoking crack?'

An example - this is Zebra with no extra effects added at all:

http://soundcloud.com/madrayken/zebstep

I apologise for the crappy nature of the music. I don't usually write stuff with beats... or tunes - let alone Dubstep. That said, I don't think that it's way off to say it's a 'typical' Massive/Cyclop-style sound.

The previous two posts pretty much nail my feelings on this subject. I am, indeed, at that peculiar juncture. I genuinely can't justify new purchases 'cos some of the classics are just sooooo gooooood! Glad to know I'm not the first to feel like this. It seems weird NOT buying synths.

But...

...First World Problem, much?

"Help! My synth collection is too nice for me to buy more of them." Christ...

Does make me worried for devs, though...

[LeVzi]

This was less of an 'I can't decide'

than a

'Having played with the demos of Massive and Cyclop (bar the sample-manipulation) for some time, I'm rapidly starting to believe there's nothing that can't be done with Zebra. Am I smoking crack?'

An example - this is Zebra with no extra effects added at all:

http://soundcloud.com/madrayken/zebstep

I apologise for the crappy nature of the music. I don't usually write stuff with beats... or tunes - let alone Dubstep. That said, I don't think that it's way off to say it's a 'typical' Massive/Cyclop-style sound.

The previous two posts pretty much nail my feelings on this subject. I am, indeed, at that peculiar juncture. I genuinely can't justify new purchases 'cos some of the classics are just sooooo gooooood! Glad to know I'm not the first to feel like this. It seems weird NOT buying synths.

But...

...First World Problem, much?

"Help! My synth collection is too nice for me to buy more of them." Christ...

Does make me worried for devs, though...

It isn't a typical massive sound at all, in fact it sounds extremely thin and basic. Massive does a lot more than just the wub wub dubstep wobble, and it sounds thick as fk.

http://cdn.refxstatic.com/mp3/vengeance ... et_v_1.mp3

[Eric C.]

Basically, you don't want to get where you feel like you have to buy everything. But anything by U-he and Fabfilter and PSP... Pick and choose though...