Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...

[headquest]

In some Reason devices there are break out jacks in the actual signal path, not sure how you would achieve something like that in VST (with MUX).

I.e. on The Echo you can tap the signal out of the feedback loop, run it through a trance gate (Alligator) or whatever you throw at it, and then send it back into the feedback loop of the Echo.

I guess in most VST effects devices you would simply use more than one in series, or using whatever routing capabilities your host offers (see points about about Ableton, but obviously it is host dependant).

[eXode]

I see it as a modular hardware system. This is how we designed our REs, basically carbon copies of analog hardware modules: very few parameters, controllable via CV, same sound quality. Only difference, you get as many instances as you like, they can process stereo and due to the sandboxed nature, they can (in theory) last forever.

Now, this doesn't replace your current DAW at all. It's simply a different concept.

Richard

Richard is there any chance for Pro-9 and something as Dune as RE products?

+1 on that. Either Dune or something based on Dune. Would love to see that.

[bmrzycki]

So is the answer to my question no or yes?

Can i use RE in Reason 6.5 demo (which is fully functional demo btw) but without Propellerhead dongle? IS it possible or not? My logic tell me that it should be possible since i am allowed to run fully functional demo but there isn't clear answer yet.
Also there isn't clear answer at shop FAQ so i am asking here did anyone managed to run RE extensions in demo? Ttoz you?

I am very new to this so i want to know am i doing something wrong?

I answered you earlier about my experience with the beta. It required internet verification to test plugins. And that's verified with the new props video.


The narrator mentions the restriction at 3m5secs.

Even registered users with the dongle have to use internet auth when trying extensions.

It might be possible for you to create an account on their site and login with that to track the trial, it might work.

[kmonkey]

Yes and i answered that i created account and i did login. As someone who don't own Reason mentioned when i log in all TRY buttons disappear.

[bmrzycki]

Yes and i answered that i created account and i did login. As someone who don't own Reason mentioned when i log in all TRY buttons disappear.

Then it sounds like demo users can't demo REs. At this point I'd suggest sending a support request to the Props.

[eXode]

The functionality you mention is due to the use of the Combinator. Ableton's instrument and effect racks came out a few months after the Combinator, and seem to have been a deliberate effort to improve on what Propellerhead had achieved in their software. So all the trick you mention relating to the Combinator, including patch saving, multiband stuff, etc can all be done in the Ableton racks - and a sh*t load more besides. And in my experience of both, all of these things are (for me) much easier and quicker to navigate, with clearer (and fully resizable) text graphics, etc than the Combinator.

For example, if you use Rough Rider (freeware) in an instrument rack in Ableton, you can have the different compression settings mapped to MIDI note trigger, to velocity, or a combination of those. And you can use it as a multiband effect insert on an external synth including MIDI out and back in to the Ableton Rack. Just a couple of instant examples. You can really do an unlimited amount of stuff if you are a tweaker, and personally I barely scratch the surface of the power that's there!

Admittedly, the stuff we are discussing is probably not possible, or at least not easy, in some other VST hosts. I guess that's why it's great to have all these nice choices of course :wink: 8) :D

I admit that I don't have any knowledge about live, but compared to VST.

The Combinator is one thing but then you add Thor which is not just a synth but an excellent processor as well. You can use it to great effect to create key switching and stuff like that. I have created a sort of random mangling combinator that with the help of Thor triggers a new effects on an incoming gate. So I can take a REX loop from the dr.octo rex, route it's Gate Output into this combinator and each incoming gate will randomly change the effect.

You can also patch up "The Finger" or Automizer type effects with this. Making more than an octave takes a hell of a lot of work admittedly but you could program a combi where each note across the whole keyboard triggers a different effect and you can custom tailor it exactly after your needs.

Then, speaking of Rough Rider, we add the modulators (from i.e. Thor). You can use envelopes, followers, lfo's etc from one device to control parameters on another. So you can i.e. have a lfo modulate the attack and release portions of Rough Rider inside a combi and have that LFO scaled by an envelope that is triggered by audio. Then the actual knobs on the Combinator have CV inputs as well which can be modulated by all the various modulators. Then it's all downhill from there. :)

I do understand that you have to be a tinkerer (like me) to fully enjoy that stuff though. :)

[kmonkey]

[
Then, speaking of Rough Rider, we add the modulators (from i.e. Thor). You can use envelopes, followers, lfo's etc from one device to control parameters on another. So you can i.e. have a lfo modulate the attack and release portions of Rough Rider inside a combi and have that LFO scaled by an envelope that is triggered by audio. Then the actual knobs on the Combinator have CV inputs as well which can be modulated by all the various modulators. Then it's all downhill from there.

I do understand that you have to be a tinkerer (like me) to fully enjoy that stuff though.

To me it sound like you just love to use various modulators to mangle your sounds. Nothing "tinkering". I'll repeat and i am saying it with no wish to flame or something but honestly modulating parameters with any kind of LFO curves (you can even draw your curves-i mean LFO curves), envelope shapers and all that - that is really covered to death inside ableton. Most of the stuff you just mentioned i can do in Live. Note that one need to have Max4live (which is expensive but it's not only a package of LFO's it is whole new space)

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Richard_Synapse]

Richard is there any chance for Pro-9 and something as Dune as RE products?

Pro-9 would be possible for sure, at least as a rackmount version (dunno if or how REs can interact with Reason's sequencer, but I'll ask them - would you like/need a 16- or 32-step sequencer?).

Dune is more challenging to port, mostly in terms of UI complexity. At this point it doesn't seem to be possible/realistic to port it- but that may change, we'll have to see how the standard evolves. Right now would be too early anyway as we're working very hard on Dune 2

Richard

[Flandersh]

In some Reason devices there are break out jacks in the actual signal path, not sure how you would achieve something like that in VST (with MUX).

I.e. on The Echo you can tap the signal out of the feedback loop, run it through a trance gate (Alligator) or whatever you throw at it, and then send it back into the feedback loop of the Echo.

I made a VST plugin with break out jacks, which work great with Reaper and Usine. I look forward to the Mux VST and will then develop more active VST plugins with both breakout jacks and other stuffs.

[eXode]

To me it sound like you just love to use various modulators to mangle your sounds. Nothing "tinkering". I'll repeat and i am saying it with no wish to flame or something but honestly modulating parameters with any kind of LFO curves (you can even draw your curves-i mean LFO curves), envelope shapers and all that - that is really covered to death inside ableton. Most of the stuff you just mentioned i can do in Live. Note that one need to have Max4live (which is expensive but it's not only a package of LFO's it is whole new space)

It's been covered in Reason too, since v.1. Out of the box. What the Combinator enabled us to do was to access even more of it and to save those setups in patches instead of songs and then finally Thor just sent it off completely.

But that is getting from the point I guess. The point was the advantage of RE over VST, especially for a Reason user. :)

[sellyoursoul]

I made a VST plugin with break out jacks, which work great with Reaper and Usine. I look forward to the Mux VST and will then develop more active VST plugins with both breakout jacks and other stuffs.

Can you show us how it works?

[kmonkey]

Richard is there any chance for Pro-9 and something as Dune as RE products?

Pro-9 would be possible for sure, at least as a rackmount version (dunno if or how REs can interact with Reason's sequencer, but I'll ask them - would you like/need a 16- or 32-step sequencer?).

Dune is more challenging to port, mostly in terms of UI complexity. At this point it doesn't seem to be possible/realistic to port it- but that may change, we'll have to see how the standard evolves. Right now would be too early anyway as we're working very hard on Dune 2

Richard

Oh great. Well 16 step sequencer with banks could be sufficient. But something as Redrum pattern system seems really handy

Good luck with Dune 2 (vst version)

[liquidsound]

In some Reason devices there are break out jacks in the actual signal path, not sure how you would achieve something like that in VST (with MUX).

I.e. on The Echo you can tap the signal out of the feedback loop, run it through a trance gate (Alligator) or whatever you throw at it, and then send it back into the feedback loop of the Echo.

I made a VST plugin with break out jacks, which work great with Reaper and Usine. I look forward to the Mux VST and will then develop more active VST plugins with both breakout jacks and other stuffs.

Can you try your Plugins the MUX in Mulab Free and see the results?
This would be the equivalent of RE in your favorite host!!!

[kmonkey]

It's been covered in Reason too, since v.1. Out of the box. What the Combinator enabled us to do was to access even more of it and to save those setups in patches instead of songs and then finally Thor just sent it off completely.

But that is getting from the point I guess. The point was the advantage of RE over VST, especially for a Reason user.

Really? How do you draw your LFO curves? Which device have that option? I never saw it. I tried Reason 1 back in old days and then i tried v3. Now i tried v6 and i can't see it.

Combinator is great but so is Ableton Rack, FL Studio Patcher, Sonar chainer, since they are essentially the very same thing. I am giving VST version a bit of advantage since i can for example chain something and then put that chain inside of another chain and inside of another chain. All key splitted etc.

Something which is impossible within Reason combinator afaik.

I think there is really a little advantage of RE over VST. I think that majority won't ever use CV cabling (which is only single difference i see) unless they are seeking experimental stuff like you and i do. but then if you are in that area there is no rule of advantages you just use what you can to exploit system (i know that you already know that).