Propellerheads RE format not transferrable

[samsam]

When I used Ableton Live and Operator came out, I remember being very reluctant to buy it, thinking that though I was happy I may one day switch hosts and didn't want to get locked into a proprietary format. Well, I'm no longer on Live and so that kind of validates for me my position. But with Operator I believe I would have at least been able to sell it.

Indeed you would have been able to sell Operator. And use whatever plugins you'd purchased in your new host.
So, quite different fr REs.

[CT]

Indeed you can sell operator, and it doesnt become nfr either. The only thing to be aware of is that if you already own operator and upgrade to suite before selling operator, then the operator license gets absorbed into the suite license.

[headquest]

I'd suggest simplicity, the right to sell anything you buy. If I am only buying a license, then I should be able to sell the same license.

+1 Yes, it really should be that simple.

If I have correctly understood the Propellerhead aim (and let's leave out their motivation for now), it's to make life simple for users - no need to download installation files for RE, etc. Just click a button or two and its there on your system... But the way that they have made this possible necessitates keeping the more complex installation stuff on their own server.

The problem is thus that for any future installation you need to click the same simple button - and depend on their server still being there.

The idea that their server wouldn't still be there - either because the company has gone or because of a catastrophic failure to their server itself - is either something they are too arrogant to even consider, or too subtle to mention to potential customers.

And the fact that the installation proceedure is locked to your online account with them is also the same reason that you cannot resell.

SO ... the answer to both these huge issues requires them to go completely back to the drawing board, and I don't think that will happen (for technical reasons) how ever many times Mattias says "maybe in the future..."

[headquest]

It is not so big problem with discontinued plugins and companies which goes out of business if the fact is I have the plugin and it has not a challenge/response copy protection or something. What this means is that I can use it for as long as I will, I just need an enviroment it works in.
...
It is a complete different situation if I don't have the plugin and the company goes out of business.

Exactly, ... and we are talking about an investment over the next few years, for example, $50 here, $110 there, and the odd impulse $29 purchase... adding up to $1,000s and $1,000...

I think that the way this works is a completely unsatisfactory way of doing business, and the more I consider it, the more it strikes me that people would have to be extreemly foolish and short-sighted to buy any RE devices at all.

Very bad.

[Kriminal]

Money talks......dont like something? dont buy it

[headquest]

Imagine one day Rewire...... Puff! Gone.

Like Record, you mean! Oh but don't worry, we've used the same technology in another product, so you can buy it again in a different guise

[liquidsound]

Money talks......dont like something? dont buy it

Exactly! Vote with your money!

[liquidsound]

Imagine one day Rewire...... Puff! Gone.

Like Record, you mean! Oh but don't worry, we've used the same technology in another product, so you can buy it again in a different guise

Really?
I'm a very low tech so.... But how can it be

You know... removing Rewire increases their revenues with RE......

[braj]

Imagine one day Rewire...... Puff! Gone.

Like Record, you mean! Oh but don't worry, we've used the same technology in another product, so you can buy it again in a different guise

Really?
I'm a very low tech so.... But how can it be

You know... removing Rewire increases their revenues with RE......

I'm not understanding the logic, er..... 'Reason' of that it seems to me Reason woukd have been dead long ago without Rewire, and I'm guessing that is still true to a degree.

[liquidsound]

Imagine one day Rewire...... Puff! Gone.

Like Record, you mean! Oh but don't worry, we've used the same technology in another product, so you can buy it again in a different guise

Really?
I'm a very low tech so.... But how can it be

You know... removing Rewire increases their revenues with RE......

I'm not understanding the logic, er..... 'Reason' of that it seems to me Reason woukd have been dead long ago without Rewire, and I'm guessing that is still true to a degree.

To a degree.... Yes.
Would you buy a RE Predator or a future Zebra etc and pay again for it when you can still use Reason and REs via rewire with your Zebra and Pretator (and yes the MUX which will allow you to do similar things in a modular way) in any host of your choice? The more quality, and expensive synth and effects are port to RE, the more the rewire is a financial leak to them.

Who bought reason for rewire use has done the financial contribution to PH long ago. The future is not to sell rewire reason units but the lucrative RE, and because of rewire, many expensive RE will not be sold as easly.

And also, by removing rewire, your leverage of freedom is cleverly removed and when you invested enough in the RE you will have to make a choice, and guess what, after all the cash you invested in a non- transferable assets, you will tip and stay put.
It happens already between OS where you have still more freedom of switching with dual platform DAWs etc.

PH knows mass psychology very well my friend.
Get ready for more brain laundry

[braj]

Yeah but part of that consideration will be 'can I also use this in my daw' and no Rewire will mean no, making me choose any expensive purchases I vst. I don't know, the door swings both ways and I am not convinced Props are so devious. But nothing really surprises me.

[liquidsound]

I am not convinced Props are so devious.

VST are BAD...
We don't need Audio...
"Nobody" has UNDO...
Buy it, keep it here, NO TRANSFERS...

Are you sure?

[braj]

Ignorant and devious aren't the same thing exactly.

[liquidsound]

Ignorant and devious aren't the same thing exactly.

Yes if from the same people

[billcarroll]

Rack Extensions remind me how the technology graveyard is often littered with "better" tech.

QWERTY vs DVORAK

VHS vs. Betamax

DAT vs CDs

Rack Extensions will never be 80% of the "plugin" market, and they will never receive top development priority from talented developers across the music industry. Developers only receive a percentage of the plugin sale.

As a developer, would you focus your energy working on a closed proprietary format for a small group of people for less money? More effort, less money. Maybe some developers will have the extra bandwidth to jump all over this. It's almost like working for the propellerheads.

I just don't see how the economics exist for Rack Extensions to be successful. My guess is Rack Extensions will flounder and eventually the propellerheads will have to consider some alternative, like allowing other plugin formats.

Reason is cool, and I love the racks and cables. Reason was my 1st "DAW". I left Reason v3 for Logic and Ableton Live because I wanted to use other plugins. I've spent a decent amount of $$$ on great plugins and they work in both Live and Logic. This is a good thing. I've had both Live and Logic crash on me before, but certainly not enough to make me think there were real problems.