Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...

[saturdaysaint]

I think you can get those sounds from any piano simply by adding reverb/delay type effects. For "pop piano" and "jazz piano" tones, I think that Propellerhead's own "Reason Pianos" refill was/is superb, and far superior to "Radical Piano".

Problem with "Radical Pianos" is - as so often with Propellerhead - the marketing BS:

There's no question they are presenting Radical Piano not just as a novelty "different piano type instrument" (which I think is what it actually is...) but as something that can recreate realistic acoustic piano recordings.

Marketing hyperbole hardly matters when you're free to try it with no restrictions for a month and demoing is as easy as a few clicks. Even uninstalling is one click. Try it, see if it's worth the asking price, move on.

Not that I know why anyone would pay any attention to marketing hype in the first place - every instrument ever has been a unique breakthrough applicable to every style of music.

[myrna]

i bought Pianoteq Pro, which is very expensive (for my poor pockets) but I still think it is one of the best instruments i have: it is something spectacular, very complex, you can control every aspect and even every key... you can transform a piano into an harp or a bell... besides you can play it standalone, AU, on PC and in Linux systems, too! It works wth a serial number, no dongles or conflicts. The sound is fantastic and it's 20 mb! You can record your songs in standalone version, too, and export them in MIDI. You have effects and addons. That's one of the reason i asked for vst support in Reason. On the contrary, Radical Piano is only for Reason, and it is not standalone: you have to open Reason first. And I guess it has not the Pianoteq sound and complexity. So the two products are not comparable, for me.

[headquest]

In a world where some of us have relied on cloud tools for over a decade this isn't much of a gamble, especially since we're talking about a company whose founding predates Google.

I genuinely hope you are right, for their sake and yours. But... we are constantly reminded that they are "only a small company". Those words are a bit like a mantra used as an excuse whenever it suits.

Then again... Why are they only a small company? According to their own website until recently they are makers of "the world's favourite music software"... too many contradiction and unknowns for me, but each to their own.

[bmrzycki]

In a world where some of us have relied on cloud tools for over a decade this isn't much of a gamble, especially since we're talking about a company whose founding predates Google.

I genuinely hope you are right, for their sake and yours. But... we are constantly reminded that they are "only a small company". Those words are a bit like a mantra used as an excuse whenever it suits.

Then again... Why are they only a small company? According to their own website until recently they are makers of "the world's favourite music software"... too many contradiction and unknowns for me, but each to their own.

The same is true for any program that uses challenge<->response or always online authentication.

Your argument is the same for video games on Valve's Steam store, Omnisphere, FXPansion products, Xbox Live, or any app from the apple store. You're correct about all of these and if any of those companies disappeared we'd have things we can't use that we paid for. I agree with you, but I also have to say this is the new norm in an always connected world. I still prefer keyfiles and serials myself. However, if Props goes belly up you have bigger problems than just losing REs. You had better have all your songs exported as stems if you ever want to re-work a song.

And where in their marketing or on their website are you getting the idea they call themselves a small company? Comments on forums like here don't count unless it's directly from Propellerhead employees. You're using that argument as if the company itself likes to shield themselves behind those words whenever it suits them.

[saturdaysaint]

I genuinely hope you are right, for their sake and yours. But... we are constantly reminded that they are "only a small company". Those words are a bit like a mantra used as an excuse whenever it suits.

Why are they only a small company? According to their own website until recently they are makers of "the world's favourite music software".

Google isn't a fair comparisson... but how about Ableton? They've not been around so long as Propellerhead, but are officially one of the top ten fastest growing companies in Germany! Plush offices in Berlin and New York, major partnership deals with several of the top industry players, over 100 staff, etc etc.

If Props didn't have any drawing power, I wonder why REX and Rewire quickly found strong footholds (and support from other DAWs!) and we still see a steady stream of immaculately produced Refills despite Kontakt's technical superiority.

Even given that past success and the fact that I've seen Reason in every pro studio I've entered, Props said that Reason 6 sold 2.5x as many new copies as any new previous new version of Reason (some of which were on store shelves for years).

Hey, I can do what I need in Logic or Live (hey, I've done some things I'm legitimately proud of in GarageBand) with my copy of Komplete, so my eggs are well divided . Software deprecates a lot like hardware - today's coolest effect (or RE) will be bundled in with Logic 12 in 2016, so I don't think I'll feel gypped and will find a way to make music even if Sweden goes to war with Norway in 2015;). In the meantime, I'm going to support the software that I have the most fun in .

[headquest]

The same is true for any program that uses challenge<->response or always online authentication.

Exactly, and I've lost use of a couple of products that way before. And this is why I have no intention of putting all my eggs in one basket and going exclusively with propellerhead.

And where in their marketing or on their website are you getting the idea they call themselves a small company? Comments on forums like here don't count unless it's directly from Propellerhead employees. You're using that argument as if the company itself likes to shield themselves behind those words whenever it suits them.

The most recent time I saw this excuse is when there were complaints about it taking up to two weeks for their customer service to respond to emails. But I've certainly seen the excuse used before.

[grymmjack]

radical piano(and im being totally honest here) is the only buying point on 6.5 release,it sounds very good and unique to my ears

For me (as a professional pianist) it's the reverse. I had a long phone chat with PH about this a while ago, and had very high hopes. As soon as they released the audio demos I just thought... oh my god. A terrible instrument, so synthetic, and so far behind the curve in terms of what else is out there (it costs nearly as much as Pianoteq Stage for goodness sakes!!).

I have a private online group for about 300 pianists where we discussed the demos... just disbelief really at how bad it sounds. For me this was the (almost) final turning point that disauded me from going down the RE route.

Obviously the appalling terms and conditions for users of RE was the very final push away from them though. No way can I invest in something where the user has so little future guarantee of being able to carry on using the product.

You're the expert (no sarcasm) what would you recommend instead of Radical?

I thought it sounded awesome, but i'm NOT an expert

What I liked most about it? It felt like a real piano, feeling:

Velocity sensitivity with pianos for me are all over the place, kontakt, nn-xt patches, ableton sampler patches, all seem a bit not right, the radical one sounded just perfect. I could really emote as I played and I'm not even good at piano!

This is the thing that I miss in the existing stuff I've tried in VST land, but I've never ever tried the plugs you have I'm sure.

Given this fact, what is comparable for $99 in VST land with that kind of feeling?

)

[headquest]

http://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq_stage

At 99 euros it's 20 euros more, but it's a quantum leap better...

This is on a whole higher level than Radical Piano - super realistic piano is exactly the same as the 399 euro version, just fewer editing options. Seriously, we're talking a completely different league.

[grymmjack]

http://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq_stage

At 99 euros it's 20 euros more, but it's a quantum leap better...

This is on a whole higher level than Radical Piano - super realistic piano is exactly the same as the 399 euro version, just fewer editing options. Seriously, we're talking a completely different league.

Thanks man

Can it do dark emotive stuff?

I really identify with melancholy and sad piano sounds, darker, less pristine sounds (perhaps this was why I liked radical a lot, it's got many of these).

If I barely touch the keys, will the piano emote for me? I don't know how to articulate this but imagine playing slow melancholy sounding simple music, where velocity really sounds good when translated by the instrument without sounding super cheesy like some grand piano stuff does sometimes.

I like the sounds of a real used dark piano I guess, that might be best way to put it

Can Stage do that to? I don't need options besides a good sounding dark one, and maybe a tone control or something simple. I can pass it through outboard effects if I need those.

[grymmjack]

I don't see a download demo link, so that's why I'm asking about the plugin headquest. Thanks.

*edit* nevermind, the giant TRY button was hard for my blind eyes to see

[saturdaysaint]

I'll be interested to see what you think, grymm. I was looking for that very thing and didn't quite find it in Pianoteq. Some EQ muffling helped, but nothing had that dark spooky vibe. Heh, for my admittedly quirky needs, I wish every piano plugin responded like the Radical Piano with the knob turned all the way to "subdued". Plus in Reason, adding a slow, subtle LFO to the pitch takes that sound to another level .

[eXode]

Of course it's not a reason alone to buy Radical Piano but the audio input to the body is very cool for doing horror style sounds. :)

[headquest]

I don't see a download demo link, so that's why I'm asking about the plugin headquest. Thanks.

*edit* nevermind, the giant TRY button was hard for my blind eyes to see

Sorry had a student

Now you've grabbed the demo I would be interested in your thoughts too. The EQ section included in the plug is very useful, and there's other good effects including convolution. Of course you can also use whatever VST you want too

Another VST that compares very favourably is "Pianissimo" which is popular with some pianists I know. Check the database here for more info

[headquest]

Of course it's not a reason alone to buy Radical Piano but the audio input to the body is very cool for doing horror style sounds.

It's an interesting feature for sure. Have you tried it out?

For an excellent (and stable!) freeware VST effect that does something similar (but based more on the string resonance):
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/rev ... pianoverb/

Presumably any convolution reverb can also do this...?

[bmrzycki]

http://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq_stage

At 99 euros it's 20 euros more, but it's a quantum leap better...

This is on a whole higher level than Radical Piano - super realistic piano is exactly the same as the 399 euro version, just fewer editing options. Seriously, we're talking a completely different league.

As I've started to listen to more piano solo music I have to agree that Radical isn't for me either. I don't really like the sound of uprights and the Grand that's in there sounds off to my ears.

I have to admit the Pianoteq stuff sounds much better to me too.

I actually think the Reason Pianos refill sounds better than Radical (but not as good as Pianoteq). It may not have the ease of use or the CV resonator inputs but the sound quality to my ears is much better. It costs $99 new and if you're set on the Reason platform (no VST) then I'd recommend that option over the new shiny RE.