KVR Audio

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:07 pm

Teksonik wrote:He means Control Voltage patching....Not enough to make me want Reason.

OK.
Well I

LOVE

all u-he stuff and I would not mind to buy them again in Reason (and I'm one of those who's fighting against the idea of RE because the way are managed by the PH), but man, I can't even manage to fully use already his gems and now you give me those cables? I would need several reincarnations to use it all.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:12 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Teksonik wrote:He means Control Voltage patching....Not enough to make me want Reason.
OK.
Well I LOVE all u-he stuff and I would not mind to buy them again in Reason (and I'm one of those who's fighting against the idea of RE because the way are managed by the PH), but man, I can't even manage to fully use already his gems and now you give me those cables? I would need several reincarnations to use it all.

So you wouldn't have a problem purchasing a Rack Extension version of a plugin you've already purchased as a VST/i ? I'm genuinely curious how people feel about having to buy a plugin twice.......

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:57 pm

Teksonik wrote:
liquidsound wrote:
Teksonik wrote:He means Control Voltage patching....Not enough to make me want Reason.
OK.
Well I LOVE all u-he stuff and I would not mind to buy them again in Reason (and I'm one of those who's fighting against the idea of RE because the way are managed by the PH), but man, I can't even manage to fully use already his gems and now you give me those cables? I would need several reincarnations to use it all.
So you wouldn't have a problem purchasing a Rack Extension version of a plugin you've already purchased as a VST/i ? I'm genuinely curious how people feel about having to buy a plugin twice.......

u-he is an exception.
Papen maybe. My position about RE still firm on disagreement. Hopefully the PH will loosen up a little and do the right thing. I'm in there since Reason 2.5 and with tons of music but the future seems to be with too much control over the RE policy. I'm not investing. I'll be watching.

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Nothing less than full plug-in support would ever make me consider Reason, the poor excuse of Rack Extensions just doesn't cut it. They are just overly paranoid about stability, it's time they stopped worrying and just got on with it.

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:37 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Teksonik wrote:He means Control Voltage patching....Not enough to make me want Reason.
OK.
Well I LOVE all u-he stuff and I would not mind to buy them again in Reason (and I'm one of those who's fighting against the idea of RE because the way are managed by the PH), but man, I can't even manage to fully use already his gems and now you give me those cables? I would need several reincarnations to use it all.

Uhbik-T with CV out would be awesome

I don't have Reason but I really like it's modular approach and things like Uhbik-T would (will) work really nicely with it

Cheers
Dennis

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:40 pm

LeVzi wrote:Nothing less than full plug-in support would ever make me consider Reason, the poor excuse of Rack Extensions just doesn't cut it. They are just overly paranoid about stability, it's time they stopped worrying and just got on with it.

Yeap.
S1 is as stable as a rock without any propellers over their heads...

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:58 pm

It is worth noting that Propellerhead has no voucher system for RE plugins, so the developers can't offer discounts to owners of existing plugins, or offer discounts on VST/AU/RTAS to purchasers of the corresponding RE plugins. Any form of crossgrade would require the ability to use these vouchers at the Propellerhead store, or for Propellerhead to issue vouchers for RE purchases.

A quote from Urs Heckmann (here on KVR):

Unfortunately, as everyone might have heard already (and unlike what we were initally told), there's no voucher system. We can't make REs cheaper for existing users. So we're aiming at a 19$ introductory offer per Uhbik and we'll settle in the 39$ price tier for each, maybe different tiers for different Uhbiks... I had hoped for more flexible pricing models, but this is really the best we could come up with. This had puzzled me because I promised better pricing based on other information.

And this is from Magnus Lidström in the Sonic Charge forum:

If we could we would have offered a good discount to existing VST / AU owners. But we can't. There simply are no facilitates for discounts in the Rack Extension store. Sorry.

Finally, here is Torsten from Softube, over at Gearslutz, responding to a post of mine:

I just wanted to iterate what Sean says above; there's no way to make crossgrades/upgrades from other products to/from RE's.

Also, RE's are a little special. They have very little in common with the other formats both in terms of development and that they are used in an environment that has (almost) no overlap with other systems.

Softube has during the last two years provided free upgrades for VST3, 64-bit, AAX Native/DSP and SONAR ProChannel support, so I think that our record shows that we take care of our existing customers.

I have seen Softube criticized in various forums for charging too much for their RE plugins, and also for not charging ENOUGH versus the VST/AU plugins that people already own. This is what is referred to as a "no win" situation for plugin developers.

Sean Costello

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:00 pm

Bait.
Switch.
Survive.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:02 pm

Teksonik wrote:
liquidsound wrote:
Teksonik wrote:He means Control Voltage patching....Not enough to make me want Reason.
OK.
Well I LOVE all u-he stuff and I would not mind to buy them again in Reason (and I'm one of those who's fighting against the idea of RE because the way are managed by the PH), but man, I can't even manage to fully use already his gems and now you give me those cables? I would need several reincarnations to use it all.
So you wouldn't have a problem purchasing a Rack Extension version of a plugin you've already purchased as a VST/i ? I'm genuinely curious how people feel about having to buy a plugin twice.......

The only way I would feel comfortable doing that is if:

1. RE could be sold later.
2. It was cross-grade incentive pricing (1/3 or less of the original VST cost on average is about fair UNLESS that plugin has extensive and deep native reason CV stuff it doesn't in VST land.

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:23 pm

JimmiG wrote:
Definitely a bit of mark-up and exploitation of brand recognition here. I hope in the future they offer bundles (based on a category of extensions or a certain developer). Otherwise I'll stick fully with VST's.

+1

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:30 pm

I wonder what their sales are like, is it turning out to be a boon already? Or will it be a bust?

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:57 pm

braj wrote:is it turning out to be a boon already? Or will it be a bust?

Oh its just like the slow-mo on the Hail Mary Pass!

Exactly like that, actually.

ChiTown24 · Post by **ChiTown24** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:35 pm

tehlord wrote: Less straightforward development (I'm guessing here)
Complicated compliance (Educated guessing)

just wanted to point out that in the rack extension promotional videos the propheads put out before 6.5 was released they made a point of highlighting how easy it was for developers to port their existing code. well, for the rack extensions that have already been ported at least. if im not mistaken magnus from sonic charge even commented that he had ported his code {bitspeak?} in something like 15 minutes

so i think the above comments might be true of some plugins, but of the stuff thats already been ported well i can only take the propheads and the rack-extension devs at their word that it is, in fact, quite straight forward.

on this rack extension topic reason has now become appealing to me for all the CV modulation stuff. but that interest is immediately shot down due to the RE prices & their restrictions plus their refusal to offer discounts or vouchers for existing owners & patrons of the original vsts. i just want to make this distinction clear;; it is not impossible {far from it} for discounts to be given to existing owners, it is completely possible. easy in fact. it comes simply down to the powers that be refusing to do it.

in this early stage of rack extensions now would be a good time for the relevant people {existing licensees} to boycott the rack extensions {and make it known} until a voucher system {or something} is put in place or some significant alternative to reduce the cost to the relevant end users at least

also its very easy to put all of the responsibility on the shoulders of propheads, and probably right, but couldnt we also consider the fact that the devs themselves could offer some kind of reimbursement/discount/store-credit/etc on their end so long as you could prove you paid for the RE version of a plugin you already own ?

just thinking out loud

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:43 pm

Well said ChiTown! You read my mind

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:11 pm

ChiTown24 wrote: also its very easy to put all of the responsibility on the shoulders of propheads, and probably right, but couldnt we also consider the fact that the devs themselves could offer some kind of reimbursement/discount/store-credit/etc on their end so long as you could prove you paid for the RE version of a plugin you already own ?

Question is, how can the developers verify that you bought the RE plugin? A receipt can be faked, if it comes from some unknown customer. Propellerhead could provide this info to the developer, but my guess is that they don't provide the customer names or email addresses to the developer in the current model.

As far as reimbursement, apparently the payments to the developers from Propellerhead happen 45 days of the sale (or maybe every 45 days). So a developer who reimburses the customer for a Propellerhead RE sale would either have to wait up to 45 days for the money to come through before paying out the reimbursement, or would have to pay the reimbursement out of pocket.

Sean Costello

Wow, Rack Extensions are expensive