Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...

[felonytrance]

I downloaded all the RE's and have not been very impressed with any of them. It is nice to have some different effect in reason but, none worth buying. It's kinda like the suite bundle with ableton live. They are not bad buy I would never buy them. Much better off getting third party plugs that do a much better job.

[ezelkow1]

I DO NOT want VST's in Reason because I lose the ability to route CV from or to them. I lose combining things in a Combinator in a single virtual "rack" and have the cables route nicely in the back of that combinator. You can do "similar" things in Ableton by Grouping elements together, but you can't make one thing control another or several others.

Ive never understood this argument. How different is routing CV and audio on the back panel to using a midi CC or audio ins/outs. Could a vst's midi automatable parameters not be represented as CV jacks? audio in/out of the vst be audio jacks? sure it would take some conversion in reason, but its definitely no where near impossible and in the end would be greatest midi routing scheme ever IMHO.

I dont have a horse in this race, doesnt matter to me one bit. Just always seemed to me they could do vst integration that way but chose not to

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[sellyoursoul]

I bought the upgrade 2 month's ago from reason 3, and started to contemplate selling the whole bundle. I was a bit sore at first because of the latency issues and not being able to download without internet connection. However in retrospect, I got the upgrade purely for the kong drum designer and ssl mixer because its as good as the duende native ssl plugins. Ive been reading about people mixing down into stems and porting them directly into reason just to sum them through the mixer. I had an offer from Kmonkey who wanted a trade but we couldnt agree on it so in the end I changed my mind. I think Ill keep reason 6.5 as is for now, because when all is said and done its worth the money with or without the rack extensions anyday.

Too many people are fooling themselves with the SSL mixer. The mixer itself has no sound. That leaves a channel eq, channel comp, and bus comp. I haven't heard anything special about the channel eq and comp, nothing that I couldn't do with freeware. The bus comp is pretty good, but I'm willing to bet that I could do much the same with Reacomp or Thrillseeker set for clean. If anyone can prove otherwise, I'm all ears.

[damoog]

you can yell and scream till you are blue in the face, but vst support will never be added in reason

Pmsl,I will send that with another 3 million users behind me.....Reason will NEVER have vst suppor....ever,ever,ever,ever,ever,eve

[liquidsound]

you can yell and scream till you are blue in the face, but vst support will never be added in reason. I guarantee it.

so deal, or move on.

They said the same thing about Audio.....

[drez]

I DO NOT want VST's in Reason because I lose the ability to route CV from or to them. I lose combining things in a Combinator in a single virtual "rack" and have the cables route nicely in the back of that combinator. You can do "similar" things in Ableton by Grouping elements together, but you can't make one thing control another or several others.

Ive never understood this argument. How different is routing CV and audio on the back panel to using a midi CC or audio ins/outs. Could a vst's midi automatable parameters not be represented as CV jacks? audio in/out of the vst be audio jacks? sure it would take some conversion in reason, but its definitely no where near impossible and in the end would be greatest midi routing scheme ever IMHO.

I dont have a horse in this race, doesnt matter to me one bit. Just always seemed to me they could do vst integration that way but chose not to

Maybe you could do that...

But how would it actually LOOK? The thing about the Reason rack and everything being "virtually" in a 19" cabinet is that everything fits and you can easily expand and shrink a combinator. Without that, would you have a special rack unit that had those CV ins/outs for each VST type? Then, how would you quickly identify which of those special unit's was to which type of VST? What would give it that unique look? I just don't see it being realistically implemented.

If not, how would you "group" these devices from all shapes and sizes into something as easy as a combinator?

[saturdaysaint]

PLEASE help me, no matter how many times i insert it this thing is the only plug in that won't auto connect.

how the hell do i use it?
do i just take as ingle cv out into a cv in of the synth? is that *it* ?

Also, if you browse after instruments in the browser and click "Rack Extension" and then go on to choose Pulsar there are a bunch of Combinator presets there both using Pulsar for modulation AND as monosynth. I'd recommend you to have look there!

i did that for the instruments thanks but not for using it as an "effect" as it still doesn't auto patch.

Ok let's say i want to do a wobble bass. (which i don't, sigh lol)

ok let me think of something else i WOULD use.

Let's say i want to make a pad alive and pump without sidechain compression. My understanding is that this is possible with pulsar right?

So if i have a lush pad in thor and i want it to pump with pulsar, what do i do?

Heh, now you're playing with fire. Here's a fun experiment - route Pulsar's LFO 1 into the "Pitch" CV in on any synth. It should sound pretty crazy/unusable. But turn down the "Level" on the LFO until it sounds like a subtle record player warping. Play with the rate to taste.

To get a sense for the other sections, go to the envelope trigger section on the far right and turn the envelope to LFO1 rate knob down slightly (like -3). This will slow down the LFO (and thus your pitch modulation) whenever you trip it. So play the synth and occasionally press that button with your mouse.

Pretty fun, eh?

[eXode]

So if i have a lush pad in thor and i want it to pump with pulsar, what do i do?

Then I'd route one of the LFO CV outputs (1 or 2) into Thor's Amp Level CV Input.

[damoog]

I bought the upgrade 2 month's ago from reason 3, and started to contemplate selling the whole bundle. I was a bit sore at first because of the latency issues and not being able to download without internet connection. However in retrospect, I got the upgrade purely for the kong drum designer and ssl mixer because its as good as the duende native ssl plugins. Ive been reading about people mixing down into stems and porting them directly into reason just to sum them through the mixer. I had an offer from Kmonkey who wanted a trade but we couldnt agree on it so in the end I changed my mind. I think Ill keep reason 6.5 as is for now, because when all is said and done its worth the money with or without the rack extensions anyday.

Too many people are fooling themselves with the SSL mixer. The mixer itself has no sound. That leaves a channel eq, channel comp, and bus comp. I haven't heard anything special about the channel eq and comp, nothing that I couldn't do with freeware. The bus comp is pretty good, but I'm willing to bet that I could do much the same with Reacomp or Thrillseeker set for clean. If anyone can prove otherwise, I'm all ears.

Mmmm...the ssl in reason is maybe a a little overhyped? But by god it's better than the old one that reason 5 and lower had

[saturdaysaint]

The fact Reason never crashes can even be something to be proud of as a user, but remains a useless pride for me, since i cannot play my vst instruments in it. Is it like feeling invincible in a bunker? No, thanks. REs: Predator, the Korgs etc. are very nice, but almost 10 years old, indeed. You can play them on a W98 system or say on a crappy ipad... without crashes, too. Nothing new (apart the price). All these "wow" for what then? I don't understand, really...

People still want the sound of a moog. Ima go out on a limb and say that's older than 10 years You can't route the CV from any app on your iPad to some other app. Why? It ain't there!

I can't use my Photoshop plugins in anything else. I can't use my iPhone apps on my android. As I said earlier in this thread, this is NOT the only industry that has things that you can't run from somewhere else. The only thing that's ubiquitous is the computer itself. From there, you start fragmenting at the OS and it goes from there.

myrna, the rest of this is not directed at you at all... I want to be clear


I can say with 100% certainty...

I DO NOT want VST's in Reason because I lose the ability to route CV from or to them. I lose combining things in a Combinator in a single virtual "rack" and have the cables route nicely in the back of that combinator. You can do "similar" things in Ableton by Grouping elements together, but you can't make one thing control another or several others.

Someone posted a screen cap from an app that is beta that will route controller's from one thing to another, but I looked at it and immediately it was obvious to me: This isn't anywhere close to being as elegant as Reason. Because the VST's aren't built around the routing paradigm. Theyve bolted it onto it. Not elegant. The PH are forcing the integration by setting "standards" for their RE's so everything play's nice together. Elegant.

RE's are NOT VST's. Nor do I want them to be. I want something that expand's REASON and exploits it's strengths. IMO, that's what the Props are setting out to do. If you WANT to use VST's, they don't care. Rewire up your host of choice and have fun. I do it with Live and its awesome. People then start in on "but then I can't sequence from the same host", or "I have to launch TWO hosts?!?!?!? SAVE TWO FILES?!? WHUUUU!?!?", or "I HAVE TO BE ATTACHED TO THE INTERNET!?!?!?"



These arguments are nothing but whining. Nothing will work 100% to anyone's liking. NOTHING. Everything has tradeoffs and the more flexibility one demands, the more complex the system. Therefore, more compromises. That applies to all systems... music, computer networks, roads, pricing models, etc.

I grow tired of the people that stand on this platform of "I can bitch and bitch about something because I don't settle for imperfection. I'm actually doing them a favor by complaining. It will make the product better."

<there's no steaming pile emoticon, but insert one here>

What you are really doing is whining publicly (and for some, constantly) about what YOU want. If that's the case, just email them. They'll get it directly and you'll have done more for your cause. I don't mind hearing the opinions about issues for a few posts. But the same ones OVER AND OVER? It get's old. For me personally, you lose credibility. I work "through" issues, not sit and bitch about things forEVER that simply aren't there. Constantly gripe to THEM. Email bomb them. Whatever, but the truth is none of us on the forum can change it. The PH's can. Go to the source.



Ok, rant mode off. Don't take it too personally, whiners. Its just how I feel about you

***applause***

"Elegant" is exactly the right word. It even applies to the demoing process - click, click, play for your hearts content. No additional authorizations, e-mail lists, or demo restrictions. Everyone else has been doing it wrong.

[drez]

you can yell and scream till you are blue in the face, but vst support will never be added in reason. I guarantee it.

so deal, or move on.

They said the same thing about Audio.....

Would you prefer them to say

"we'll never do it" and then just never do it?

I don't even think they said they'd never do it. I think it was more "we're not going to do it in a way that isn't unique and doesn't fit in our vision". PH has a "way" they like to do things. A methodology. If it doesn't fit in that framework, they just don't do it until it does. They don't even HINT that they are working on it. Super secretive.

And they still sell a shedload of product.

[liquidsound]

I DO NOT want VST's in Reason because I lose the ability to route CV from or to them. I lose combining things in a Combinator in a single virtual "rack" and have the cables route nicely in the back of that combinator. You can do "similar" things in Ableton by Grouping elements together, but you can't make one thing control another or several others.

Ive never understood this argument. How different is routing CV and audio on the back panel to using a midi CC or audio ins/outs. Could a vst's midi automatable parameters not be represented as CV jacks? audio in/out of the vst be audio jacks? sure it would take some conversion in reason, but its definitely no where near impossible and in the end would be greatest midi routing scheme ever IMHO.

Yes! And there are already VST doing it this way in any host but "Without Cables" and "Back Panel" which seems to be Half of the Fun but the results is quite the same or better because you can use ANY VST... Any Monster....

[liquidsound]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.