Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...

[headquest]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.

Their CEO stated at the RE press launch that *new* sales (not including upgrades) rose by 250% for version 6 compared with previous versions. But when accepting that at face value we must consider that many of the things said that day were not exactly true

Retailers I know of have always found Reason one of their biggest sellers. BUT now Propperhead are fronting an online RE store that entirely bypasses retail outlets from their ongoing business model, I rather suspect that the retailers are going to be a whole lot enthusiastic in promoting the Reason platform. That will undoubtedly be one downside to the path they have chosen.

Another part of the big puzzle!

[saturdaysaint]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.

Their CEO stated at the RE press launch that *new* sales (not including upgrades) rose by 250% for version 6 compared with previous versions. But when accepting that at face value we must consider that many of the things said that day were not exactly true

Retailers I know of have always found Reason one of their biggest sellers. BUT now Propperhead are fronting an online RE store that entirely bypasses retail outlets from their ongoing business model, I rather suspect that the retailers are going to be a whole lot enthusiastic in promoting the Reason platform. That will undoubtedly be one downside to the path they have chosen.

Another part of the big puzzle!

Right, just like when audio retailers all stopped carrying Live when Ableton started selling Sampler, Max4Live etc. etc. direct to consumers. And how computer stores stopped carrying Macs when Apple introduced the App Store.

[headquest]

Right, just like when audio retailers all stopped carrying Live when Ableton started selling Sampler, Max4Live etc. etc. direct to consumers. And how computer stores stopped carrying Macs when Apple introduced the App Store.

No, not the same as them at all...

Reason has been one of the big retail-only programmes until quite recently, as were their other products. That changed with the Reason 6 PWYW, which decimated the boxed-upgrade market, and led to cross words being exchanged. Propellerhead are now taking their download business model to another stage, and every sign is that (1) they are likely to phase out boxed product and (2) retailers already feel on edge about that and are giving PH a hard time about it (and yes, I do have info about this and no, I'm not going to reveal the multiple sources).

Ableton have always offered downloads, but have also offered additional exclusive content in boxed versions. They have been consistent over many years with this.

Apple run their own highly successful stores as their primary retail outlet, so are hardly a relevant comparison.

[drez]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.

*facepalm

It was already mentioned earlier in this or the other main thread about RE's regarding the number of units sold with the 6 upgrade or pay-what-you-want which was, indeed, "a shedload". This information was mentioned in the RE video announcement so I'm not going to debate that with you.

[drez]

Right, just like when audio retailers all stopped carrying Live when Ableton started selling Sampler, Max4Live etc. etc. direct to consumers. And how computer stores stopped carrying Macs when Apple introduced the App Store.

No, not the same as them at all...

Reason has been one of the big retail-only programmes until quite recently, as were their other products. That changed with the Reason 6 PWYW, which decimated the boxed-upgrade market, and led to cross words being exchanged. Propellerhead are now taking their download business model to another stage, and every sign is that (1) they are likely to phase out boxed product and (2) retailers already feel on edge about that and are giving PH a hard time about it (and yes, I do have info about this and no, I'm not going to reveal the multiple sources).

Ableton have always offered downloads, but have also offered additional exclusive content in boxed versions. They have been consistent over many years with this.

Apple run their own highly successful stores as their primary retail outlet, so are hardly a relevant comparison.

If I was the PH and I could make more money but NOT selling boxed product, wouldn't I do that? Or as that what you are saying?

[liquidsound]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.

*facepalm

It was already mentioned earlier in this or the other main thread about RE's regarding the number of units sold with the 6 upgrade or pay-what-you-want which was, indeed, "a shedload". This information was mentioned in the RE video announcement so I'm not going to debate that with you.

The hidden power of marketing... It works!

[Robert Randolph]

(2) retailers already feel on edge about that and are giving PH a hard time about it (and yes, I do have info about this and no, I'm not going to reveal the multiple sources).

That's weird, I have multiple sources that tell me that retailers are quite excited about it. I can't reveal my sources though.

edit: I may even have more sources than you, with bigger names... but I can't reveal that info.

[headquest]

If I was the PH and I could make more money but NOT selling boxed product, wouldn't I do that? Or as that what you are saying?

Exactly. I don't see any holes in the business plan, and agree with your point that it continues to be a huge seller, evidenced by:

1) Retailers would not be concerned unless it was worth something to them - i.e. a big seller.

2) Propellerhead seem to be gambling that success because they believe they can get even larger revenue from their RE store model.

But it is a gamble, and depends on RE success, or else they could derail both the good will of retailers and their own business plan.

[drez]

And they still sell a shedload of product.

No financial figures available anywhere I think.

*facepalm

It was already mentioned earlier in this or the other main thread about RE's regarding the number of units sold with the 6 upgrade or pay-what-you-want which was, indeed, "a shedload". This information was mentioned in the RE video announcement so I'm not going to debate that with you.

The hidden power of marketing... It works!

So now you are saying that they are lying?

[headquest]

That's weird, I have multiple sources that tell me that retailers are quite excited about it. I can't reveal my sources though.

edit: I may even have more sources than you, with bigger names... but I can't reveal that info.

Nice try.

Any retailer excited that Propellerhead are cutting them out of the RE loop clearly didn't think it through

[drez]

If I was the PH and I could make more money but NOT selling boxed product, wouldn't I do that? Or as that what you are saying?

Exactly. I don't see any holes in the business plan, and agree with your point that it continues to be a huge seller, evidenced by:

1) Retailers would not be concerned unless it was worth something to them - i.e. a big seller.

2) Propellerhead seem to be gambling that success because they believe they can get even larger revenue from their RE store model.

But it is a gamble, and depends on RE success, or else they could derail both the good will of retailers and their own business plan.

Ah, i see.

IMO the fact that nobody is able to crack version 6+, and they are selling more copies than ever, i don't see where the risk is. RE's are icing on the cake for the Reason user. PH's seem to be doing just fine withOUT making RE's, but now they can generate even more revenue with the online shop method for RE's. I mean...other than gigantic sample libraries, who really buys a significant amount of audio software in a brick and morter store? It seems too expensive for the majority of developers to make any money in that model.

[headquest]

The dongle is also the argument that persuades retailers to sit tight. The first point of sale needs to remain a store, and PH want that to stay in place. It's all the rest - upgrades, extras, RE Shop - these are the places where Propellerhead are striking out alone.

[drez]

The dongle is also the argument that persuades retailers to sit tight. The first point of sale needs to remain a store, and PH want that to stay in place. It's all the rest - upgrades, extras, RE Shop - these are the places where Propellerhead are striking out alone.

Alone in the Audio space? Because that's not unique in the Software industry at all.

[headquest]

No, I meant alone in the sense of *without the retailers*

[Robert Randolph]

Unless they remove the boxes from the stores, there's no reason to be upset. (pun intended).

To use REs, you need reason. If anything, it's an excellent selling point for the product. Nothing has changed except the salesmen now have another tool to sell the product. (free upgrade, free plugins, exclusive extensibility, etc..)

Even if this is somehow a problem, it can be easily solved with PH selling gift cards to the shop in stores.