Bit Wig have started Beta Testing today (Link) June 19th

[liquidsound]

No to include something similar or better then the Rack would be insane. Getting up with the wrong foot.
I'm sure it's not going to happen but.... We shall know soon.

[decalogue]

Why should we rule out that Bitwig might be Live 9 in disguise?

Some say "Bitwig is an independent company". Sure, but sometimes new companies are launched ad hoc, to scare off potential competition, for example. There could be many other reasons we don't know about. Then later on the companies merge...

Maybe Bitwig Studio is a light version of Live 9, and Ableton are later dropping surprising news about the full version. I know this is speculation, but why are some of you so certain that Ableton and Bitwig don't have a hidden business agenda together?

[GruvSyco]

all of this seems eerily familiar, like I had seen something very similar to this happen before. Perhaps Bitwig Studio is to Ableton Live as Luxology Modo is to Newtek Lightwave.

*edit* (although Live is nowhere near as dysfunctional as Lightwave felt.)

[hibidy]

Conspiracy theories are usually lame and bogus. Forgive me for being so blunt, but bitwig is NOT ableton live 9.

Yes, we've had some fun calling it vaporware, and it's been a LONG LONG time coming, but it's NOT live 9.

Ableton said some time ago they were going to stop concentrating on updates and fix what was broken. I don't have a clue in the world if that is what happened but live 9 will be put out by ableton, not bitwig. Currently, it looks as though bitwig 1 will be ahead of live 9.

[ChiTown24]

Why should we rule out that Bitwig might be Live 9 in disguise?

Some say "Bitwig is an independent company". Sure, but sometimes new companies are launched ad hoc, to scare off potential competition, for example. There could be many other reason we don't know about. Then later on the companies merge.

Maybe Bitwig Studio is a light version of Live 9, and Ableton are later dropping surprising news about the full version. I know this is speculation, but why are some of you so certain that Ableton and Bitwig don't have a hidden business agenda together?

mainly because its fanciful, improbable and far fetched.
there is a much more probable, simple scenario: and that is that there is no smoke & mirrors and no conspiracy.
i agree with you in as much as i dont personally believe the people from bitwig & ableton have bad feelings towards each other. and i see how bitwig will benefit ableton.

but this is no ableton enterprise, thats just whacky talk mate.

its weird that the most logical, plain old vanilla explanation is the one that must prove itself but again i must refer you to the fact that bitwig entered a government competition for startup companies, and won 25 grand from the german ministry of economic affairs. ableton won the same thing when they were a startup, iirc. if bitwig was some kind of ad hoc company they would neither need that financing, nor would they defraud the german government out of 25 grand - and worse - deprive another startup who would genuinely need it.

Claes also has experience doing things for himself, he is super talented, the idea that he would set out to do his own thing {again} after spending time at Ableton seems incredibly logical to me.

and as an ableton veteran i have seen how their business has evolved, how their aggressive upgrade policies effected the quality of their output, and the gradual blowback from a once fanatically loyal fanbase. if the end users can start to get fed up with how things were being done, it makes sense that the talent behind the scenes could get fed up too.

sugarbytes was started by ex Native Instruments employees, but the tin-foil hat brigade were not out en masse for that development nor was there any loony theories of them having personal beef or some such.

ableton didn't invent the matrix paradigm known as the session view, they just proved it in the software realm. i think whats stoking the flames for the conspiracy nuts is bitwig adopts the same matrix paradigm and a mix of fanaticism and brand loyalty has people thinking in emotional terms and thus either getting pissed off at bitwig or believing they must be ableton in disguise. so nutty its almost endearing!

thats my take on it at least.
and i feel vindicated, when i speculated that doms transition to bitwig must mean the beta is very close i was proven right a mere 15 minutes later. so i reckon im right. though i find it odd that the simplest explanation is the one that must stand up to scrutiny!

[dalor]

Live users must be really frustrated to wish for Bitwig to be the next Live update.

Bitwig is not Live, Live is not Bitwig.

Everyone is wishing for the next BIG, BETTER, AWESOME thing to replace the OLD thing. Bitwig won't be THAT either. Only exists in our heads.

Saying that, I BLODDY WANT IT!!

[UncleAge]

Everyone is wishing for the next BIG, BETTER, AWESOME thing to replace the OLD thing.

I don't agree. I think most Live users that have been around a bit are looking for much less. They want simple things that will bring the app up-to-date and give it a bit more longevity. Things like being a native 64bit app, or better automation, all-around better midi (editor,sync, blah...), custom keyboard shortcuts and stuff like that. And I highly doubt that most Live users who have invested so much time and money into the platform will just abandon it. They may dabble with BWS but heck the majority of us have several DAWs anyway, right? I have Reaper, eXT, Podium and Studio One and none of them make me want to ditch Live.

btw- have the Wigs stated that the app's specialty will be live use?

[Andywanders]

if im not mistaken dom wilms was the head of ableton support {up until very recently i guess ?}
the plot thickens !

Really..?

I always thought he was a country singer...

[ChiTown24]

[LawrenceF]

These companies would be (and are) very happy when users "ditch" what they're currently using and buy what they're selling, get on board fully. That's the best case.

But the market at the consumer level doesn't really work that way, many people buy the new thing and then later will still upgrade the old thing when it does something clever. The only real daw war at the consumer level is a really short term war, who'll get our money this year... or this sales quarter.

Some of these companies even appear to time their major release cycles based on knowing that. When was the last time you saw a NAMM show or something where 5 major DAW's had major (big flashy feature) releases?

That's all just to say... BitWig is gonna sell a lot of copies. So will Cubase 7 upgrades, to some of the same people, and S1 3, and Live 10 or whatever.

The most common phrase on music software forums... "I've used them all."

[LawrenceF]

P.S. I just hope BitWig Studio is a grand slam homer for Hibidy. KVR just doesn't seem right when he's so sad.

[bobbybland]

So who here @ Kvr got their beta link? What's the scoop is it good,great,lame what's up?

[liquidsound]

What's the usual time for the first beta before the public beta in the Daw world?

[hibidy]

P.S. I just hope BitWig Studio is a grand slam homer for Hibidy. KVR just doesn't seem right when he's so sad.

Well, at least I have cats.

[christianmusicmaker]

Bitwig is not Live, Live is not Bitwig.

My thoughts as well. Remarkably similar in many areas but AFAICT totally different companies / products.