The Weeknd - What you need, progression theory

[bjp]

Can anyone help me breakdown this tune?



If i'm thinking in terms of the basic chord progression

Gmin Ebmin Cmin

I guess you could say it is almost in the key of C minor, excepting the second chord which has a Gb (giving the progression its' unique color).

Would you say it modulates through two keys from C min to Db min for that chord then back again (the last Cmin doesn't exist in Db)?
Can anyone make deeper theoretical relation between the chords than this?


Obviously this type of song is the product of trial and error, playing keys till something comes up but i'm interested in going deeper into what makes a progression like this happen because it has such a unique sound yet doesn't deviate too far from a comfortable pop progression. I like the slightly complex emotion it evokes.

thanks!

[Ogg Vorbis]

I really like progressions like this. The root movements are straight-forward...outlining of a Cminor triad, but when you "parallel-ize" the triads built upon these roots, it gets into some modal changes that sound very dark and interesting.

The change from G natural in the first harmony to Gb kind of yanks you into a new tonal area, but then it yanks you right back in the third chord which uses G natural again.

So it's like switching from Cm to something unrelated very suddenly.

This happens when guitarists go up and down the fretboard with barre chords (usually using major triads) where the root notes might make some sort of sense in one particular key, but when you retain the upper notes of the major chords, the tonal colors shift around a little bit.

I think the ear hears and follows the root movements as being dominating over the other pitches, so that's why it makes some sense tonally. The ear also hears the retention of the same quality (major or minor) as the progression planes along.

So I would call it "modal planing" but I feel sort of silly giving it such as "serious" sounding name when it's really an accidental result of a dude with limited keyboard skills making the same hand shape and heading downward.

My name for it would be "claw planing".

[wrench45us]

someone I'm sure will correct me if I'm wrong, but Miles Davis and the birth of the modal worked with very similar progressions, so it's not necessarily limited compositional skills at play here. For him it was more of a puzzle of working out a scale that would play against a few 'unrelated' chords. It all depends.
And ths up and back a half step was very popular in the bebop era with a moitif following the half step chage. It's easy on guitar, but not nearly so easy on keyboard. Bud Powell did this in nearly every song.

[tapper mike]

^Sums it up pretty well

[jancivil]

Would you say it modulates through two keys from C min to Db min for that chord then back again (the last Cmin doesn't exist in Db)?
C

I wouldn't say that particular thing, just looking at it on paper since 'key of Db minor' doesn't really have an Eb minor chord. I don't know if I like 'modulate' either, Ebm feels like a shift, and then back. The Gb to G is the point of focus for me.

Beyond that Cm sounds like iv here at the outset. It does seem ambiguous to me right now, which is interesting. I'm taking Gm and Cm as two facets of the same stone.

I don't know what single scale you'd derive from that, to work against the Gm/Cm thing and the Ebm. I'm certainly not hearing a single scale for runs. On the Ebm I'm sticking with the D instead of Db*. I like A better than Ab for the Gm, but not for Cm.

Again, the characteristic thing that creates this mood is that G to Gb shift.

So we have two very useful ideas for improvising over this thing: Gm with a major seventh (enharmonically) and the same thing on Ebm, *Ebm^7. So for me calling this "modal" is really a stretch. There is too much ambiguity applying lines. In theory you might have to formulate three scales. I would eschew that and go for color tones for each chord. You want to say it's modal, then what is *the mode*? There isn't one.

[lumoes]

I'm kind of moving off the topic of the chord progression, but I am curious about the little melodic instrumental piano pieces that play throughout the song.

One is F-A-D
Another is F-G-C

Which on a guitar fit exactly into the scales of Key of D/Bmin

There's is also a glissando: Gmin7

I am curious as to how this would relate to the chord progression. What is the relationship.

And I think this song might most closely be in the key of Bb/Gmin. All the vocal melodies seem to fit into that key and it still has the same progression characteristic.

[tapper mike]

One is F-A-D
Another is F-G-C

Which on a guitar fit exactly into the scales of Key of D/Bmin

Um no
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_major

[lumoes]

My mistake. I meant F/Dmin.

But I just realized that those notes also fit in the Bb/Gmin.

[jancivil]

I'm kind of moving off the topic of the chord progression, but I am curious about the little melodic instrumental piano pieces that play throughout the song.

One is F-A-D
Another is F-G-C

I am curious as to how this would relate to the chord progression. What is the relationship.

D, F, A are 5, 7, and 9 relating to G minor; additionally C will be the 11th or 4th relating to G minor.
triadic extension: G Bb D F A C.

D and F would go over C minor as 9th and 11th extensions. C Eb G Bb D F. 'A' would be 6th or 13th, but I remember I didn't find it too good here for this C minor.

if you glommed the idea 'C dorian mode' over the Cm, there's an A but it seemed more pure minor by what happened here I guess...

I liked that D for Ebm apparently, that give a 'minor/major 7th' construction. Minor triad/major 7. F will be your 9th for that.

those are color tones per the basic chords.