Wow, Rack Extensions are expensive

[liquidsound]

I know what some of you think about Radical Piano but I think that this guy does it justice.

Honestly it's no that bad, it's not a great Real Piano emulation, it's actually Radical. Seriously, I love the Piano refill but I can see some neat sounds coming from Radical very soon.

[gentleclockdivider]

Wish the Polysix had Audio In. With the filters and effects that would have been pretty sweet.

It is harder to put an audio in on a polyphonic synth, whether it is analog or digital. My physical Polysix has an FM input for the filters, but no other inputs. My physical Polysix also has the circuit board that was eaten away by the poorly located battery, but that is another story. Anyway, an audio in for a poly synth would need to deal with the voice allocation issue, or be fed into all voices at once.

Sean Costello

Or you know... pass audio through just the filter.

edit: As silly as this may sound, that is simply what a lot of people have been asking for in the PH chat/forum.

Why don't you just admit that you din't really understand what a polyphonic filter was , untill sean had explained it to you

[djanthonyw]

I just want to know if people are also going to call Rack Extensions "VSTs".

[ChiTown24]

Still no direct or even indirect answer on why the devs {i.e the backbone of the whole RE project} don't just insist on allowing crossgrade prices.

the silence is pretty telling imo
I hope at least those people who would be eligible for crossgrade prices on certain Rack Extensions show some backbone and don't make purchases until they get them.

I'm sure now the game plan is "wait and see", if they can still make desirable profits whilst neglecting to offer crossgrades they will continue in that way. Oh and of course it will be propellerheads fault, the big bad propellerheads tying every devs hands.

[saturdaysaint]

Still no direct or even indirect answer on why the devs {i.e the backbone of the whole RE project} don't just insist on allowing crossgrade prices.

Because money talks and crossgrades are not a fundamental human right that keeps developers up at night. I'm sure they'll throw you a bone in the forums and even put in a word with Propellerhead, but hardcore VST collectors just aren't the prime audience for REs. Developers want to be in the Props Store so that they can sell to people who largely haven't even heard of Softube or Audio Damage, who would never look up synth reviews, who are mostly turned off by the idea of "installing" an instrument. Doesn't mean you don't have a right to want what you want. Besides, with Rewire it isn't as if you're being deprived of much.

[Goseba]

I thought Props had indicated that at the moment it was just not possible with the current RE shop but in the future maybe.

Maybe the Props assumed people would sell their VST's versions to pay for the RE's so crossgrades would be irrelevent

[ChiTown24]

Still no direct or even indirect answer on why the devs {i.e the backbone of the whole RE project} don't just insist on allowing crossgrade prices.

Because money talks and crossgrades are not a fundamental human right that keeps developers up at night.

Money talks;; exactly. Put like that, straight from the Devs collective or individual mouth, and i would have little more to add.
What doesn't stand up to even the faintest of scrutiny is that the lack of crossgrad pricing is all propellerheads doing. big bad propellerhead.
If you followed the topic, this thread even, you'd see that the devs do supposedly desire the option to offer crossgrades. Yet refuse to play their hand, or even comment on the fact they have the strongest hand. How frightfully peculiar!

second to that, in this thread, we've had eager dev input on such incidental topics such as how long it takes or doesn't take to port existing code to an RE. Sometimes in stark contrast to what they themselves as well as propellerheads have been saying in RE promo vids {development overheads are drastically reduced for the dev in the long run, once the initial port to RE is complete}. Especially when the porting topic is framed in the context of offering crossgrades to existing patrons of said existing code.

So, two big reasons why the complete aversion to mild "why dont you insist on crossgrades" queries is odd. NOT because I think it is a fundamental human right

I'm sure they'll throw you a bone in the forums and even put in a word with Propellerhead, but hardcore VST collectors just aren't the prime audience for REs. Developers want to be in the Props Store so that they can sell to people who largely haven't even heard of Softube or Audio Damage, who would never look up synth reviews, who are mostly turned off by the idea of "installing" an instrument. Doesn't mean you don't have a right to want what you want. Besides, with Rewire it isn't as if you're being deprived of much.

now you're veering off the point, certainly my point - my sole point, which is crossgrades for existing patrons. I have no opinion on RE prices for those who would be new to the plugin. Which means the prices are imo reasonable for such people {though some take issue with the NFR policy}. Nor would I dream of challenging the idea that its super swell and cool and nice and great and fandabbydoozy to introduce their existing wares to brand newbians. And despite your own rationalization of the situation, I refer you once again to the fact that the devs themselves supposedly want crossgrades. Certainly in the threads i have read. It's just that their means of getting what they want varies between completely ineffectual to totally non-existent. In Poker terms they have a Royal Flush that they are refusing to play.

Thats whats odd to me, and worthy of comment.
Ive stated clearly in this thread what demographic i am a part of but maybe you missed it, i am already a long time patron of a large number of these plugs. i like the CV paradigm reason offers for sound design purposes, though never liked the proprietary synths/fx the props themselves offer enough to buy reason as it was. i would purchase a reason license tomorro, plus crossgrades, if the devs actually met their supposed desires and insisted that they be allowed in some shape or form, be it from the propheads ecosystem or the devs direct.

i welcome opinions contrary to my own, but please at least try to nail down what it is exactly that i am saying.

[SWallace]

Wish the Polysix had Audio In. With the filters and effects that would have been pretty sweet.

It is harder to put an audio in on a polyphonic synth, whether it is analog or digital. My physical Polysix has an FM input for the filters, but no other inputs. My physical Polysix also has the circuit board that was eaten away by the poorly located battery, but that is another story. Anyway, an audio in for a poly synth would need to deal with the voice allocation issue, or be fed into all voices at once.

Sean Costello

Or you know... pass audio through just the filter.

edit: As silly as this may sound, that is simply what a lot of people have been asking for in the PH chat/forum.

Why don't you just admit that you din't really understand what a polyphonic filter was , untill sean had explained it to you

There are no polyphonic filters in Reason. There are several devices that act as monophonic filter however. So for anyone asking for audio-in for the Polysix their expectations are certainly not for a polyphonic filter. In black and white terms they are looking for a monophonic filter and the ability to use the on board FX.

[xx JPRacer xx]

It's like games. I've paid twice to have games on both PC and Xbox 360. It's the same game. Same thing with HD-DVD <-> Bluray, paid twice. Only Valve offer free Mac version of games previously bought on PC.

[ChiTown24]

It's like games.

No. It's not.

[Jake Jackson]

Will all of the Reason pianos, including the new Radical Piano, load into Reason Essentials?

[valhallasound]

second to that, in this thread, we've had eager dev input on such incidental topics such as how long it takes or doesn't take to port existing code to an RE. Sometimes in stark contrast to what they themselves as well as propellerheads have been saying in RE promo vids {development overheads are drastically reduced for the dev in the long run, once the initial port to RE is complete}. Especially when the porting topic is framed in the context of offering crossgrades to existing patrons of said existing code.

If developers are saying that the ports have been taking a lot of time and effort, and Propellerhead has been saying in their promo vids that the ports only take a few hours, I would tend to believe the developers.

This point isn't really about the cost of REs, or the whole crossgrade issue. To me, it is just important to point out that the idea that porting an existing plugin to RE will only take a few hours has been proven incorrect by the developers that have actually attempted it. Yet this "15 minutes/2 hours/4 hours" meme is still being touted as fact, just because Propellerhead claimed it to be true in their own marketing material.

Sean Costello

[ChiTown24]

the 15 mins/ 4 hrs/ whatever time it takes to port is moot. it has certainly been mooted in this thread. not sure why you're still hanging on to it ?

the main point, the only point really re: porting, is that once ported the development overheads are drastically reduced. unless you're calling bullshit on that too. but I doubt you are.

in my previous post i didn't make any reference to the length of time it takes to port, nor is the length of time it takes to port fundamental to any point i am making or have made previously. it was certainly a curiosity to think it could be done so quick, but nowhere near as relevant as the bigger picture. And once magnus chimed in to claim the promo vid was deceptively edited, it was accepted that yes indeed it isn't that quick to port completely. So give it up Sean, we certainly have.

i only brought porting up again to illustrate how quite unusual it is that devs have been so eager to chime in on that point despite the fact it is so incidental to the real meaty queries at hand regarding crossgrades. the devs claim to want a crossgrade option, but the devs wont comment on why they dont just insist that they are implemented somehow, be it through the propheads ecosystem or by providing basic purchase data to the devs so they can work it on their end.
On that issue we get absolutely no commentary.
Nothing at all.
Weird.

you harping on yet again on this mooted issue {and not the really meaty one} is a perfect illustration of that observation.



Weirder still is how Urs mentioned that there will be intro pricing for Uhbik. Intro prices but no crossgrades ? really ? talk about undermining the whole "but our hands are tied" line we're being fed.

best thing anyone can do is watch the sonicstate vid i posted with magnus@soniccharge. theres no tricky editing, and he plainly confirms everything propheads have been saying about the overall drastic reduction in development overheads once ported. I dont think anyone is claiming otherwise. he was also super cagey when asked about pricing. SUPER cagey. A very telling clip indeed.

[valhallasound]

So give it up Sean, we certainly have.

Hey, if you get sassy with me, I might have to take you off my Christmas card list. If you don't hear about how the Costello kids are doing in school this year, you only have yourself to blame.

Sean Costello

[Crackbaby]