Wow, Rack Extensions are expensive

[chk071]

Either way ... major loss of respect.

How good that business is about selling things and not about credibility then. For me this is just another case of "Don't like it? Don't buy it." No matter which direction this thread will go anyway, i'm pretty sure that Reason 6.5 and the rack extensions will sell like mad anyway. In the times of app stores, it just was a clever marketing move. And tbh, the developpers offering their extensions will surely think about which price they can take to still sell their stuff well.

[headquest]

Agreed. But I think that commercial success will come about because of their (deliberately misleading) marketing campaigns, the sycophancy of a couple of music magazines, and the blind loyalty of some users.

Propellerhead are unquestioningly brilliant at generating a buzz around their products. And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

It seems to me worthwhile to challenge that, to provide some balance to their propaganda, in the hope that potential customers can actually access a range of opinions from current and previous Reason users and other musicians with experience and knowledge about music software.

To put it another way - a significant proportion of the Reason users I know bought the software because they were ignorant of alternatives and unaware of Reason's profound limitations. If threads like this can show up in Google, then it might help prevent more musicians from making uninformed choices

[mrdr]

So what is the difference between you and this crazy chick Myrna? Subtlety?
All i see is grief and vendetta. And No-life of course

[headquest]

So what is the difference between you and this crazy chick Myrna? Subtlety?
All i see is grief and vendetta. And No-life of course

Hmmm... I've got no life?? Um, okaaaaay...
And I don't know anything about "this crazy chick Myrna" so I'll not be the judge
Is personal attacks all you have to offer here?

[TristezaOrange]

Agreed. But I think that commercial success will come about because of their (deliberately misleading) marketing campaigns, the sycophancy of a couple of music magazines, and the blind loyalty of some users.

Propellerhead are unquestioningly brilliant at generating a buzz around their products. And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

Wait, Apple changed its name to Propellerhead? When did this happen?

[Goseba]

To quote from the Props for the Name Your Price upgrade for V6:
" Just one of the new effects in Reason 6 would cost an arm and a leg as a standalone plug."

Since these effects were subsequently confirmed to be RE's, was this a clue that RE's would cost an arm and a leg?

[saturdaysaint]

And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

Pot, meet kettle.

[headquest]

And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

Pot, meet kettle.

Hardly! Like most people here, I'm an independent user giving feedback and opinions. That's a significant part of what the forums here are for, and if you don't like it you shouldn't read them. Propellerhead, in their statements, are a commercial enterprise; I have no commercial interest in any music software company.

In any case - which part of my post is a lie or misleading? I've used Reason as a paying customer of their for about a decade, and I'm sharing from that experience.

[saturdaysaint]

In any case - which part of my post is a lie or misleading? I've used Reason as a paying customer of their for about a decade, and I'm sharing from that experience.

How about we start with the paper-thin contention that you actually use (or even know how to use) Reason. Have you finished any projects in Reason that you'd care to show us?

In the "Hosts" thread, you asked what could be accomplished in Reason that you couldn't do in Live. When I mentioned LFO parameter modulation (something I'd expect someone with a decade of passing experience to know), you conspicuously disappeared, leaving it to Live users to confirm that, yes, you'd actually need to spend $200 (who's the money-sucker now?) and dig into MFL to do anything like that. If you're not that far, should we even bother getting into the programming possibilities with CV, Thor, envelope followers, etc?

You've occasionally tipped your hat to the Rack (received wisdom, I can only assume) but you've been quick to pooh-pooh any of the customizability as being for "tweakers". It strikes me that someone who's disdainful and borderline ignorant of a product's core strengths has little business talking about its feature roadmap.

[highkoo]

How about we start with the paper-thin contention that you actually use (or even know how to use) Reason. Have you finished any projects in Reason that you'd care to show us?

It will take a lot more than that to undo the logic in his last post...

[kmonkey]

In any case - which part of my post is a lie or misleading? I've used Reason as a paying customer of their for about a decade, and I'm sharing from that experience.

How about we start with the paper-thin contention that you actually use (or even know how to use) Reason. Have you finished any projects in Reason that you'd care to show us?

In the "Hosts" thread, you asked what could be accomplished in Reason that you couldn't do in Live. When I mentioned LFO parameter modulation (something I'd expect someone with a decade of passing experience to know), you conspicuously disappeared, leaving it to Live users to confirm that, yes, you'd actually need to spend $200 (who's the money-sucker now?) and dig into MFL to do anything like that.

That's a bit lame demand..He could just download demo, make some stupid song, save it and post it here.

And yes m4l is 200$. How much did you paid for Reason upgrades over years. Less then 200$ I hardly believe so. So why i as a Live user wouldn't pretend to be moronic blindfolded idiot and say like some of Reason fanboys claim: look i only paid 200$ but i really got universe of sounds...what's wrong with that? Don't whine about it..

And quite fekkin seriously you simply CAN NOT compare m4l or MAX itself to anything in Reason. Max isn't just LFO modulation for Christ sake. For that money you have instrument design tool, resynthesis, hardware control, video tools for live act, etc.etc.etc.

Here is just a glimpse.

Max gives you the parts to create unique sounds, stunning visuals, and engaging interactive media. These parts are called 'objects' - visual boxes that contain tiny programs to do something specific. Each object does something different. Some make noises, some make video effects, others just do simple calculations or make decisions. In Max you add objects to a visual canvas and connect them together with patchcords. You can use as many as you like. By combining objects, you create interactive and unique software without ever writing any code (you can do that too if you really want to). Just connect.

Objects that Connect

With native support for a wide variety of controllers and devices, Max lets you connect anything together.

Add live camera or audio input to create an immersive and interactive experience.
Attach sensors to your Max using Arduino, Eobody or other devices.
Plug in MIDI devices and USB gaming controllers to control things exactly the way you want to.
Combine a variety of devices and software together using MIDI, serial communication, or network protocols like OpenSoundControl to create hybrid systems.
Collaborate using OpenSoundControl across a local network with other computers or OSC-enabled mobile apps.

Max in Your Community

The diverse tools and accessible interface has made Max an indispensible tool in a variety of disciplines where realtime media and interactivity are needed. Here are things people near you are doing with Max.

Electronic Musicians use Max to develop unique sound-making tools, unusual instruments, and custom performance systems.
Live Visualists use Jitter and Vizzie tools to create images that respond to sound and other inputs.
Exhibition Designers develop rich, educational exhibits that engage museum visitors.
Interactive Media Artists combine technologies that sense the environment with responsive Max patches to entertain and challenge the viewer.
Scientists and Researchers use the quick prototyping and compatibility of Max to develop experiments and record data.
Public Artists and Architects use Max to develop enhanced public spaces.
Video Game Developers and Sound Designers use Max to prototype game sound, develop custom toolchains, and test new controller prototypes.

Max in Education

Max has been used in Universities all over the world to teach Computer Music, Interactive and New Media, Sound Design, and a variety of subjects to students with different backgrounds. The visual approach of Max empowers students in the arts to harness the power of computer programming without being intimidated by lines of code. The basic building blocks of Max have been vital to training students in the theory and practice of signal processing and synthesis in Computer Music courses.

Students with a background in other programming languages will find native support for JavaScript, Java, and C. Third-party developers have also added support for a number of scripting and music-oriented languages.

Interactive and New Media courses benefit from the unique and diverse collection of tools available with Max. Students combine work with electronics and microcontrollers like Arduino with the interactive media capabilities of Max. With support for audio, video, and 3D graphics in realtime, Max helps students realize rich multimedia projects.



Give me a break man..it's hardly money sucking..

[headquest]

How about we start with the paper-thin contention that you actually use (or even know how to use) Reason. Have you finished any projects in Reason that you'd care to show us?

Reason features in a lot of my electronic tracks, as found in this set:

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/sets/myshowcase

This track was produced 100% in Reason:

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/falling-star

I would be very happy to listen to and comment on your Reason tracks too if you would care to share them....

In the "Hosts" thread, you asked what could be accomplished in Reason that you couldn't do in Live. When I mentioned LFO parameter modulation (something I'd expect someone with a decade of passing experience to know), you conspicuously disappeared, leaving it to Live users to confirm that, yes, you'd actually need to spend $200 (who's the money-sucker now?) and dig into MFL to do anything like that. If you're not that far, should we even bother getting into the programming possibilities with CV, Thor, envelope followers, etc?

Got me there.... oh hang on, contrary to rumours I actually DO have a life, and only nip in and out of here. I clearly remember when you asked that question, and when I returned an hour or so later somebody else had indeed beaten me to it with a comprehensive answer.

As for M4L and the free LFO device you mentioned, I don't have it. I'll leave you to judge for yourself whether my music is terribly suffering as a result

You've occasionally tipped your hat to the Rack (received wisdom, I can only assume) but you've been quick to pooh-pooh any of the customizability as being for "tweakers". It strikes me that someone who's disdainful and borderline ignorant of a product's core strengths has little business talking about its feature roadmap.

You do a lot of assuming, don't you.
So I'm "borderline ignorant" of Reason, and only know about the rack from "received wisdom".... whatever.

So far as I'm concerned, in the many years I have used it I have found it an incredibly useful application when used in conjunction with a proper DAW. That doesn't change the fact that with the new direction Propellerhead have taken since Record and now Re it is of less use to me (because it is trying to replace my main DAW and failing in a number of key areas) and I no longer feel the route they are taking represents good value for money for all the reasons I have given.

[headquest]

Oh, and this one is also done entirely in Reason using just the grand piano from the FSB, tweaked a little with the MClass EQ and the RV7000:

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/departures

Again, shame about the missing LFO.

[headquest]

That's a bit lame demand..He could just download demo, make some stupid song, save it and post it here.

LOL. Yes I suppose that's what I could do, being some kind of retarded troll or something.

On the other hand, I could just post the stuff that I've done in Reason over many years.

Of course, genuine Reason users and members of the Propellerhead User Forum have had the chance to listen to and comment on these tracks on the Propellerhead boards for ages, and many have done so. There's threads where other users have even linked to my tracks as examples for others...

Surprised "Saturdaysaint" didn't know that actually, being such a fan and all

[saturdaysaint]

In any case - which part of my post is a lie or misleading? I've used Reason as a paying customer of their for about a decade, and I'm sharing from that experience.

How about we start with the paper-thin contention that you actually use (or even know how to use) Reason. Have you finished any projects in Reason that you'd care to show us?

In the "Hosts" thread, you asked what could be accomplished in Reason that you couldn't do in Live. When I mentioned LFO parameter modulation (something I'd expect someone with a decade of passing experience to know), you conspicuously disappeared, leaving it to Live users to confirm that, yes, you'd actually need to spend $200 (who's the money-sucker now?) and dig into MFL to do anything like that.

That's a bit lame demand..He could just download demo, make some stupid song, save it and post it here.

And yes m4l is 200$. How much did you paid for Reason upgrades over years. Less then 200$ I hardly believe so. So why i as a Live user wouldn't pretend to be moronic blindfolded idiot and say like some of Reason fanboys claim: look i only paid 200$ but i really got universe of sounds...what's wrong with that? Don't whine about it..

And quite fekkin seriously you simply CAN NOT compare m4l or MAX itself to anything in Reason. Max isn't just LFO modulation for Christ sake. For that money you have instrument design tool, resynthesis, hardware control, video tools for live act, etc.etc.etc.

Give me a break man..it's hardly money sucking..

I'm not dissing Max/Reaktor/MFL/etc. in the least (I was only taking a pot-shot at how HQ incessently paints Props as money-grabbers while ignoring Ableton's expensive policy for accessing advanced features). If those environments are like elaborate model-ship studios, Reason is more like Legos. If you put the time in to understand them, they're worth every penny and Reason users should certainly thank them for being on the bleeding edge of modular programming.

But hq considers Reason too "tweaker"-friendly, so I don't see how anything more advanced has any application to him.