Rack Extensions... have they taken off yet?

[ezelkow1]

It all comes down to pay twice for the same VST (and I like to see how many will do that when finally some heavy duty synths will be ported to RE way above $100 from what we see now in the "Shop").

Let's see...

If you buy the DVD versions of your favorite movies, are you then going back to the store and demand that you get "coupons" for buying the Blu-ray version of the same movies? No? Why not?

Actually alot of studios did this, Warner bros is the only one I know off of the top of my head still doing it. I dont have any blurays but I know a bunch of friends have done the deals with them where you either ship them a dvd or prove ownership and they will give you a discounted version of a blu-ray. That would be for an upgraded version as well, not what most would probably consider a lateral move in a product format

[PB2000]

Actually alot of studios do this. I dont have any blurays but I know a bunch of friends have done the deals with them where you either ship them a dvd or prove ownership and they will give you a discounted version of a blu-ray. That would be for an upgraded version as well, not what most would probably consider a lateral move in a product format.

A move to Re's within the Reason environment would be considered an upgrade to many.

[liquidsound]

The area above is the point of your consternation. I don't believe that RE's were ever marketed as a replacement for anything you already have. There are new users every day that don't have VST's or any desire to work outside of Reason. That is the main focus of the Props, as it should be. Their thoughts should be, "How can we maximize our product implementation while still developing products on a platform that we believe in?" There is a big enough market of PAYING customers to where they don't have to worry about the VST market.

So what would be the problem with Coupons or Resell value.
Just explain in your own thoughts.
There is inconsistency in what are you saying.Their focus is not just to the Reason Only users but on Others as well, hence, no Coupons.
It could happen but not with the "conditioned submission" of the majority of Reason users.
The funny thing is that while most of the complains about Audio and VST were opposed by the Reason Fanboys, those are the one actually enjoying it.
The time will come when the same issue we are discussing here, and of course opposed...., will be implemented (hopefully) by the Gods...

[liquidsound]

Posted twice...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[PB2000]

The area above is the point of your consternation. I don't believe that RE's were ever marketed as a replacement for anything you already have. There are new users every day that don't have VST's or any desire to work outside of Reason. That is the main focus of the Props, as it should be. Their thoughts should be, "How can we maximize our product implementation while still developing products on a platform that we believe in?" There is a big enough market of PAYING customers to where they don't have to worry about the VST market.

So what would be the problem with Coupons or Resell value.
Just explain in your own thoughts.
There is inconsistency in what are you saying.Their focus is not just to the Reason Only users but on Others as well, hence, no Coupons.
It could happen but not with the "conditioned submission" of the majority of Reason users.
The funny thing is that while most of the complains about Audio and VST were opposed by the Reason Fanboys, those are the one actually enjoying it.
The time will come when the same issue we are discussing here, and of course opposed...., will be implemented (hopefully) by the Gods...

This is just an opinion but I'm concluding that the Props don't want to open a can of logistical nightmares that involve coupons / rebates / cross-grades, etc when it involves someone else's property. They are in a partnership with developers in the early stages of technology implementation at a global scale. Re implementation within the current roll-out is pretty intensive on human resources already. Cross-grade concerns have got to be pretty low in priority of importance as they might have concluded that if a user already has something similar, they probably won't be overly concerned with purchasing it as a Re at this time.

These Re aren't going anywhere so who's to say that a cross-grade opportunity might happen once everything else settles. The majority of sales are going to come from users that either don't already have a VST equivalent or one's that are going to buy it regardless of a cross-grade option. Note, I said majority. Sure, there are some that have VST equivalents and REALLY want the RE so they can use it exclusively in the Reason environment.

As for your comment on them focusing on what VST users want and not offering coupons, I'm really not sure what your saying as the English is not clear. I'm not trying to offend, I'm just not sure what you're trying to say.

As for the third part, who cares? Does it really matter? People say things all the time in anonymous forums. Re's are now a part of the current and future of Reason and users will be better, overall, for it.

[liquidsound]

To be certain that the Coupon system is really a fair approach to the users owning the same product as a VST, we will need to see, for example, how much RE Predator will be selling for.

We will see in the near future that in order to invest a substantial amount of money twice and commit to use them in Reason, something will have to give.
The initial enthsiasm will probably turn into a grassroots malcontent and then a new announcement from the PH will introduce a New Version of the facts allowing what was the right thing in the first place but done after a good capital gain from users enchanted enough to go along with it, which is actually the majority.

Changes will always occur from the other minority which asks the right questions and takes a step back to get a more fair perspective.

[MFXxx]

Well Ive bowed out of the RE trend.

I like reason and since the 64bit rewire have gotten familiar with the workflow so i dont need to spend money on REs versions of VSTs I already own licenses for.

Further to the fact that I am having no end of technical issues getting Reason to load with RE licenses that wont download, yet have already downloaded via the authorizer onto the dongle. Its a bizzare convoluted setup and I cant get it to work. Takes Props over a week to respond and even then downloading the licenses to the dongle was solved by a haphazard error on my behalf. But still no luck getting Reason to run with RE's Ive given up. So I see this as fate and whilst negative about the whole RE affair, it reminds me of other format issues with non related plugin issues (Sony Betamax and their alternative mp3 format, apple and their uncompromising formats).

I like vsts with their versatility and I still feel that their is no reason why Props can not support midi out and latency compensation to facilitate a wider audience. I am not knocking Reason but its been around for over 10 years now and still it is limited and not very versatile. But like I said the x64rewire was a positive step...RE's I dont see the point especially as the licenses are non transferable or redeemable!

Still I am sure those who have not invested heavily in vsts like myself will be happy to start collecting their REs regardless which I am happy to say will keep Reason in business so i dont lose out on the rewire front.

[bobbybland]

Sounds like a nightmare with support from them.I can't comment on their support,but I will say, to pay for a plugin twice, to be used in another daw is crap.. I'd never let them pimp me like that, and effectively thats all reason is, is another daw. Sticking to my vsts obviously..

[sys2074]

I've bought Reason and switched fully to it a while ago. Was fed up by the constantly unstable VST environment. Reason runs rock stable instead and with version 6.5 has come a long way. There are some quite nice REs already like the Pulsar, the Polysix and effect devices like the FET compressor, Etch Red, etc. Nothing that throws me out of the armchair yet but it's still an early time for REs. I'm sure many other developers will jump on and develop REs of their VSTis. Personally, it would be great to see KORG's other VSTi's being ported to REs and I wouldn't mind if U-he develops Diva as an RE.

[puzzlefactory]

The PAYING customer base is extremely important. While a user base may complain about the lack of VST's in Reason, what do you think the percentage or 100% legitimate VST's users is?

So true. This is a key point, one which I've bought up a couple of times in these Re threads and one the Reason/ Rack Extension naysayers have carefully ignored.

[myrna]

REs = custom pseudo hybrid "plugins" for an hyperclosed daw. In this way PH pretends to make happy both reason's users category (the ones who wanted plugin support can say "oh, but now RSN has third party plugins, too"; the ones who hate vst can say "hey, but REs are not vst". I don't like this policy, infact I sold Reason after using it for 10 years. Stability issue is a false problem: daws are not atomic power stations, if sometimes crash it is no tragedy at all.

[PB2000]

REs = custom pseudo hybrid "plugins" for an hyperclosed daw. In this way PH pretends to make happy both reason's users category (the ones who wanted plugin support can say "oh, but now RSN has third party plugins, too"; the ones who hate vst can say "hey, but REs are not vst". I don't like this policy, infact I sold Reason after using it for 10 years. Stability issue is a false problem: daws are not atomic power stations, if sometimes crash it is no tragedy at all.

You know, you keep saying the same thing. Call it a hamburger if you want. What you call it doesn't have an effect on what it does and what it does is serve a purpose. If that purpose doesn't fit your need, don't use it and move on.

There are a LOT of people that are perfectly happy to have the combination of Reason and Re's. It fits their needs to a "T".

You simply need to come to terms that VST is not a platform that the developers at Propellerhead believe in. There are a lot of users that believe the same.

[fceramic]

REs = custom pseudo hybrid "plugins" for an hyperclosed daw. In this way PH pretends to make happy both reason's users category (the ones who wanted plugin support can say "oh, but now RSN has third party plugins, too"; the ones who hate vst can say "hey, but REs are not vst". I don't like this policy, infact I sold Reason after using it for 10 years. Stability issue is a false problem: daws are not atomic power stations, if sometimes crash it is no tragedy at all.

What's your problem? Loads of people love the introduction and implementation of REs in Reason. It's completely seamless and acts just like any Reason rack device. The shop works fine and makes it easy to find, try and compare new extensions.
I think Propellerhead are doing fine, and I really hope REs will let them focus on updating and enhancing the workflow and interface instead of adding new devices.

[myrna]

no problems at all, just answered to the thread opener's question. RE is fine, but I would not call it a new "plugin" standard, since it gives you 0,001% of all commercial plugins out there. Let alone the free ones. Now, all the hypes and fanboys claiming "reason is now open to vst world" is simply not true: VST works everywhere, RE doesn't. Too expensive, cannot be resold, needs internet... I like the concept (new racks for reason), i don't like all the rest.