Zoom H1 noise questions and maybe alternatives?

[Caine123]

i bought the Zoom H1 for testing atm with money back guarantee! i normally like the sound quality for the 100 bucks but it seems i dunno how to handle it right atm. i hold it in my hands and dont move and dont beathe directly in the direction of it, and have all technical stuff switched off like the pc etc. so no background noise is there but when i record for example water drips it is first a quiet sound file even if i turn on Auto LEvel, and when i just normalize it directly it gets louder but i hear the noise somehow i wasnt aware of, how could this noise be there and how to prevent and remove it?

http://www7.zippyshare.com/v/66805173/file.html

many people recomended me the olympus LS-5 instead of this one, what would you say?

[Karmacomposer]

I have been using the Zoom field recorders for years. They are pretty quiet - as quiet as most any other field recorder costing hundreds more. I HIGHLY advise the Zoom H4 - one of the best recorders ever made. It accepts XLR inputs (2 of them) and has excellent stereo mics built in. I own the H4 and H2 and I can safely say that the H4 is the best in my arsenal. I've owned other field recorders, some costing over a thousand dollars and the Zoom H4 kicked their butts every time in sound quality, ease of use and massively long battery life.

However, no matter what device you use, you need a nice loud sound source if you are going to isolate that sound in a nearly noise-free environment, like trying to capture a drip-drip from a faucet.

The answer is not a better recorder, but better technique.

First, never HOLD a mic if you are trying to capture a sound, you will get unwanted noise from vibrations. Use a boom mic stand instead. If the subject audio is very quiet, like in the case of a drip, put that recorder so close to the sound source as to almost touch it. You need to shock absorb the recorder (such as a mic stand or shock absorption handle) no matter what. If in the field, use a light-weight tripod, but you need something like a boom stand so you can get the recorder right up to the source. I've had to get very creative with field recorder placement - finding a rock to place it on or a tree branch I can wedge my recorder into acts like a tripod when one is not available. I put industrial strength velcro on the back of my Zoom H4 so I can stick it to things I need to record where a tripod is impossible to come by - you would be amazed how well that actually worked (like hanging it upside-down a rock climbing wall capturing the ambient audio from climbers).

NEVER EVER EVER use gain control. Keep it on as quiet as you can and raise the volume of the sound by getting as close to it as you possibly can. The zoom recorders have a L/M/H switch. Best to keep it on L(ow) for best quality and lowest noise floor. The rule in gain is (this is true for audio and video) - the more gain - the more noise. The less gain - the less noise. There is no way around this. All recorders have some kind of noise floor. The Zooms are pretty decent. Do not use electric. The transformer creates a buzz that gets recorded (a problem with the Zoom design). Instead use batteries - they last for tens of hours on 2 AA!!!

Normalizing audio is a good and necessary step, but if you record something ultra quiet at a very low volume, normalizing brings out ALL the frequencies, the good ones and the bad. You may wish to follow up the normalizing with some parametric EQ to quiet or mute a bit those frequencies causing noise. It won't be perfect, but it can certainly help when a sound project gets botched and you cannot go back out and re-record. I prefer to not use EQ to keep the sound as natural as possible, but sometimes you just have to 'edit in post'. If your sound source was nice and loud and you can see that on the resulting waveform, then normalization will not hurt the sound quality or bring up the noise that much.

So the key is to have a nice, loud sound source to record. Something whisper quiet will cause you grief if you normalize it later. However, sometimes it's a good thing to NOT normalize. If you record a quiet moment and want to keep it that way, then keep it that way - DON'T bring the frequencies up by normalizing.

Hopefully this helps you.

Mike

[audiothing]

The answer is not a better recorder, but better technique.

I totally agree with this, also I think your reply should be a sticky here
Very good information.

I own the H1 and I used it many many times all around the world for both professional and fun use. It is very good if you don't want to use expensive gear and it's very portable compared to other models. I tried the H4n too and it is of course better in terms of quality but bigger and if you don't need XLR inputs the H1 could be a very good (and cheaper) alternative.

The main problem of the H1 is the noise of the battery holder, specially if you hold it with your hands without a tripod. You can try this: remove the battery holder and put a small piece of tape under it then put it back, it should hold better and tighter and reduce almost all the noises of the case.

[Karmacomposer]

The answer is not a better recorder, but better technique.

I totally agree with this, also I think your reply should be a sticky here
Very good information.

Thank you. Feel free to sticky it.

The main problem of the H1 is the noise of the battery holder, specially if you hold it with your hands without a tripod. You can try this: remove the battery holder and put a small piece of tape under it then put it back, it should hold better and tighter and reduce almost all the noises of the case.

The velcro trick mentioned above does away with noise from that plastic crap thing they call a case (for the H4). Also, a standard mic clamp along with a fake mic handle (screws into the tripod mount hole) can also solve the problem since (I believe) these recorders have a tripod screw mount built in (I know the H2 does). On the H4, you put velcro on the back of the unit and then the opposite velcro pieces on the boom mic arm. The industrial velcro should hold like a darn vise!

The H2 may not have as good a mic (well, it has 4 decent mics - and the newer ones have 5 mics for true surround) as the H4, but it does record in surround AND comes with both a smallish stand and a fake mic handle that you screw into its screw mount hole. Then you can use a standard boom mic stand with it.

Mike

[ChamomileShark]

I've just got a H2n for field recordings and since getting it about a month ago it's not stopped raining here in the UK.

I'll copy the suggestions here - thanks for sharing!

[Caine123]

thanks a lot for the tips, i just put the h1 on a chair with a pillow under it and hit record, i didnt have any electronics on and other stuff, i recorded bare foot on a floor but it sounds like im in the middle of a highway
i dunno but somehow it mostly generates too much background noice, i dunno...

http://www26.zippyshare.com/v/82532245/file.html

[Karmacomposer]

thanks a lot for the tips, i just put the h1 on a chair with a pillow under it and hit record, i didnt have any electronics on and other stuff, i recorded bare foot on a floor but it sounds like im in the middle of a highway
i dunno but somehow it mostly generates too much background noice, i dunno...

http://www26.zippyshare.com/v/82532245/file.html

Yep. I listened to that sound file and it sounds EXACTLY like too low of a noise floor. Recording quiet or far away sounds will result in that kind of a sound after normalizing. I assume you had the gain on low and normalized the resulting audio, yes? Please provide a recording untouched AT volume (no editing of any kind other than a crop of the sound) with gain all the way down.

Also, make sure there are no noise-making influences like air-conditioning vents, fans, etc. You would be amazed what gets picked up by these very sensitive recorders. I always turn off fans, air conditioning, computers, etc.

Lastly, try to reduce the amount of ambient noise to nothing. Outside, there is little you can do except use a wind screen and perhaps a dead cat (a fuzzy wind screen used for killing wind noise). Wind and nature will simply get recorded. We do not live in a vacuum. Inside, however, is much easier to control. Buy some Auralex and place it properly on the walls in the room you will be recording. Don't use too much Auralex or you will create a anechoic (sp?) chamber. Reduce reflections as much as possible (no windows) and, as mentioned above, turn off ALL electronic and noise-making devices if you can.

There is something to be said for using a proper tool for each purpose. Perhaps recording a really low volume sound in a very noisy space is just not a good match for any recorder. In this case, you may need to re-create everything in a very controlled space - one you created that is devoid of all outside influences. This will be time consuming and costly and would only be done if the budget was there for it (as in foley for a movie score/track). Also, if it just cannot be recorded because it is just too damn quiet of a noise - re-create it in a synthesizer or modelled environment. There are software programs out there that can help you create rain drop or dripping sounds. Mind you, this is not good advice if you are hell bent on recording it, but I have a feeling ANY recorder will give you this un-wanted noise in such an environment. If you have the money for it, why not buy the top 5 brands and see how they differ?

One more piece of advice. Remember that any of these recorders are recording at far distances unless you, like I advised in my first reply, put it right up against the source of noise you are looking to record. Stereo mics on these recorders do not telescope - they record in a wide pattern and pick up everything in the room. For recording of specific sounds, you need to 'zoom in' to the sound using something more telescopic. In this case, using a really powerful shotgun mic or stereo mic (I use an ATS 2020 stereo mic with custom made battery powered amp and a special cable that goes into my H4 dual XLR inputs) and putting it right up against the sound source is what you need. Again, use a boom mic stand. So if you wanted to record footsteps, like in the audio sample above, you would place the mic butt up against where your feet would be and you would walk in place. You can simulate going closer and father by either walking softer or harder or doing it in post with volume envelopes. Make sure to wear shoes that make everything louder. Walk on tile if you want that gumshoe sound, or a small sandbox if you want that sound. These are tricks foley artists have used for decades.

Mike

[Caine123]

hi Mike!

BIG THANKS for all those tips and the time you invested!
i really love to record and try out things, not just buying sample libraries and using the sounds, somehow it's more more fun using the own samples and knowing you made them .

i already used some even if they are unclear, somehow it may also have a nice side effect, but overall i got you, seems i need a bit more gear for a handyrecorder

i think an anti air protection would be then also recommended for home use?

oh yes my rooms arent high qualified for recording etc. so i thought of small vibrations from the floor, neighbour and more too. just sometimes it's so clear and other times very different so i have to find out what and when suits best .
still i love to record my own stuff, i did with 3 small samples ambient, dark ambient, percussives, soundscapes, and thats awesome!
a breath sound was like a psychopathic bass sound pitched down !

i dont think i will invest in making my room qualified for those purposes as it's money hungry
but i will try in different rooms and maybe cellar too!

[Karmacomposer]

Never underestimate the power of a full clothes closet. The clothing act as a natural sound dampening agent. If you need a VO and don't have a sound treated room, a closet full of clothes or towels works wonders.

Mike

[Resonator63]

Thinking of picking up a portable recorder to record some samples indoors and out.
I came across this thread and was interested to read some of the useful info contained in it.
Been looking at the Zoom H1 and some of the Tascam models DR-05, DR-07MKII AND DR-08.
Any opinions on which of these is best or most suited to sample recording anything from outdoor ambiences to close up sampling of sounds?Or any other options worth considering?
The DR-07MKII and DR-08 have positionable microphones,is there any advantage to this?
I'm not fantastically knowledgeable on microphones and microphone technique so any advice would be appreciated.

[zabolla]

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-H5-Four-Tra ... B00KCXMBES (https://www.amazon.com/dp//ref=nosim?tag=kvraudio-20)"
Zoom H5 4-Track Portable Recorder
I don't know if that's usefull, aniway…
Includes detachable X/Y capsule (XYH-5) with extended signal capacity and shock mounted mics for reduced handling noise

[Robmobius]

You get what you pay for, H1 is basically a toy.

H4 or above would be fine.

[zabolla]

After testing many tips taken from the net, I found a 'home-made' method to prevent the Hn1 - which is in any case cheap and complete for good mobile use - from covering the recording with the many squeaks coming from the plastic handle: I put the foam wind filter from the value pack on the head of the device and tighten it by that filter; that way no more noise can be heard.

[zabolla]

You get what you pay for, H1 is basically a toy.

H4 or above would be fine.

I already have a Zoom - H2n that gives me great satisfaction, but I can't put it in my bag to record around when the opportunity arises to do so and this the H1n 8scratches aside ) allows you to do that

[Robmobius]

You get what you pay for, H1 is basically a toy.

H4 or above would be fine.

I already have a Zoom - H2n that gives me great satisfaction, but I can't put it in my bag to record around when the opportunity arises to do so and this the H1n 8scratches aside ) allows you to do that

The H4n Pro is exceedingly portable.