billcarroll wrote:Offering REs was just a slap in the face with a large salmon.
Now I know. I couldn't figure out why the deal smell so bad! 
Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post
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- KVRAF
- 5573 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth
Now I know. I couldn't figure out why the deal smell so bad! ABEFLGMOPPRRST 
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- KVRAF
- 5573 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth
+1 for the MUX.Crackbaby wrote:If you want modular you could try Mux instead of reason. Before trying Mux i really considered Reason again. Not that that i ever would have bothered with the reasons ttoz posted. No crossgrades means shedding out so much cash just to get not even close to what i have now
Also, i haven't seen one string of hope that Props would even consider upgrading the sequencer part!
I was a Combinator maniac until I discovered this one in MuLab long ago and the drift started......
ABEFLGMOPPRRST
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- KVRAF
- 5573 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth
ttoz, how are you doing with the Rewire side of Reason so far...
ABEFLGMOPPRRST
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- KVRAF
- 5200 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
I did not vote because none of the option align with my opinion. I think you made it only to support your own view and that's quite all right but it's only your view. I am leaving myself at "i understand what are you saying but i am not finding it alarming"
I think that sometimes you take things you perceive a bit to intimate. And i am telling you this as a friend not as someone who is in this thread with something against you just to clarify(because i see you have old haters here).
My opinion is that Reason is selling quite often because Propellerhead (from what i understand) made several key changes which are resulting in some people to jump off bandwagon. These are:
They completely dropped closed eco system which until now provided users to collaborate across the world without worrying about any kind of "compatibility" issue other then version of program alone. This isn't a case anymore since they introduced RE which by itself is killing that feature which was one of key selling point.
They seems to use overused therms such as "VST crashing", proper history command, etc.etc. and overall they marketing tactics are that they are supposedly making revolutionary things over their competitions while in fact some of these features are being available in competitive product for more then a decade. And they are kinda revolutionary only to existing userbase(but why they are throwing knives at competition that is unknown). The point is that they are claiming that they are making something new while they are just reinventing a wheel. Just look that RE video where that - Peff dude claim that Propellerheads are "again" making technology dissappear. ?!?? That is VERY lame. They introduced plugin concept and a shop. Wow. Good morning. I have yet to see what will disappear? I saw a lot of people where pissed of by that lame tactics and imho that too contributed to spoil their "we are nice" image.
Quite a lot of people are disappointed with their RE policy which does not allow transfer. That also made drop in their company image.
Then there are software issues. With 6.5 on door quite a lot of existing users started to have a lot of problems. I've seen three or for people selling Reason at their forum. When they where asked why (isn't it weird that at their forum in every sale thread someone jump in and ask why seller is leaving with advice on how to stay...seems like a religion a bit) few of them told that it's because issues with 6.5
Add to that pretty normal factor, some people get tired of something or their upgraded to something advanced or something which better suit their workflow and now they are trying to make use of opportunity to sell Reason with two RE,s.
But even so i am not finding any of this alarming. They lived before, their userbase will grow because eventually better RE's will be released, application will be upgraded etc.etc.
May i also say that i was close to buy it but i decided against it when i saw issues, when i heard of RE policy, lack of PDC and when i saw how some well known and rightly respected developers on this forums report quite unusual behavior of Propellerhead regarding of what was promised with RE and what actually is..
I think that sometimes you take things you perceive a bit to intimate. And i am telling you this as a friend not as someone who is in this thread with something against you just to clarify(because i see you have old haters here).
My opinion is that Reason is selling quite often because Propellerhead (from what i understand) made several key changes which are resulting in some people to jump off bandwagon. These are:
They completely dropped closed eco system which until now provided users to collaborate across the world without worrying about any kind of "compatibility" issue other then version of program alone. This isn't a case anymore since they introduced RE which by itself is killing that feature which was one of key selling point.
They seems to use overused therms such as "VST crashing", proper history command, etc.etc. and overall they marketing tactics are that they are supposedly making revolutionary things over their competitions while in fact some of these features are being available in competitive product for more then a decade. And they are kinda revolutionary only to existing userbase(but why they are throwing knives at competition that is unknown). The point is that they are claiming that they are making something new while they are just reinventing a wheel. Just look that RE video where that - Peff dude claim that Propellerheads are "again" making technology dissappear. ?!?? That is VERY lame. They introduced plugin concept and a shop. Wow. Good morning. I have yet to see what will disappear? I saw a lot of people where pissed of by that lame tactics and imho that too contributed to spoil their "we are nice" image.
Quite a lot of people are disappointed with their RE policy which does not allow transfer. That also made drop in their company image.
Then there are software issues. With 6.5 on door quite a lot of existing users started to have a lot of problems. I've seen three or for people selling Reason at their forum. When they where asked why (isn't it weird that at their forum in every sale thread someone jump in and ask why seller is leaving with advice on how to stay...seems like a religion a bit) few of them told that it's because issues with 6.5
Add to that pretty normal factor, some people get tired of something or their upgraded to something advanced or something which better suit their workflow and now they are trying to make use of opportunity to sell Reason with two RE,s.
But even so i am not finding any of this alarming. They lived before, their userbase will grow because eventually better RE's will be released, application will be upgraded etc.etc.
May i also say that i was close to buy it but i decided against it when i saw issues, when i heard of RE policy, lack of PDC and when i saw how some well known and rightly respected developers on this forums report quite unusual behavior of Propellerhead regarding of what was promised with RE and what actually is..
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- KVRian
- 730 posts since 13 Apr, 2002 from Terra Australis
Interesting discussion on Reason generally, but you can't draw any conclusion at all from anecdotal sales stats on the marketplace forum. There are dozens of reasons why it may be perceived as over-represented whereas in fact it may be dramatically under-represented. Marketplace numbers mean absolutely nothing.
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- KVRAF
- 13124 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
I like Reason. It's a great environment for creating interesting sounds, it's very easy to use and yet it's very flexible when you need it to be.
I think that this is about right...
I think that this is about right...
We have to remember that KVR is just a microcosm of computer-musicians and trends that we see here or even on the internet in general don't always represent the market as a whole.I think that some people are selling just because now's a good time to get out. There is some profit taking building on the back of the RE buzz. People are just saying, "I don't really use Reason anymore, I paid $1 to get the 6.0 upgrade and nothing for the 6.5 and all this buzz will let me sell quickly, and maybe for more than I'd get later when the buzz settles. Of course, there's also competition, but still, I suspect that some people are just seeing now as a good time to get out.
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
Didn't we go through a thread and a half about these issues already? 
Oh well, maybe Props will take notice this time
Oh well, maybe Props will take notice this time
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 4083 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA
I voted and agree. I was pretty excited about RE's until I learned you cannot sell them. That makes them inferior to the VST versions in my book as I can't ever get rid of them if I find I don't use them as much as I thought I would or if I just plain bought the money.
If I had a hardware compressor, synth or EQ I could always sell it. If I buy something I own it, if I own it I can sell it. Thats how I see it and that's why if I buy Reason I will not likely buy many if any RE's.
If I had a hardware compressor, synth or EQ I could always sell it. If I buy something I own it, if I own it I can sell it. Thats how I see it and that's why if I buy Reason I will not likely buy many if any RE's.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
ttoz: I think those of us with intense personalities either clash or empathize. In my case, I empathize. While I think you do get pretty personally moved by things most people don't feel personally motivated by, I do the same at times and I find a passionate view to be the more compelling one (same for a passionate personality being more compelling; I've little interest in interactions with people that have no preference or opinion outside what they see as the defacto standard of their society).
Regarding your poll: I don't have the ability to choose one or the other option. Also, you should have titled it with "read post before voting" or something, because I have to agree that the polls are most often standalone from the messages. This is a fault of design. The poll should be presented at the end of the first post, not isolated above it.
Regarding the topic: I agree with the statements coming from most calm and rational posters here. I think it's easy to misjudge what's going on, but I think you are seeing something real on some level. IMO, we're at a turning point in the history of Reason. All long term products do this. If they survive at all, it's actually somewhat less caused by retaining "the old guard" than what we emotionally prefer to believe. I watched the old guard users vacate Carrara a few years back, only to be replaced by an equal number (more, really) of people willing to cope with the frustrations the old guard grew intolerant of. The same goes for other products. If a product is marketed with any amount of cleverness (either by brute force of fearure claims and price being lower than competition, or by being "fun," which Propellerhead indeed is), it'll survive the worst development failures as long as there's enough income to keep the ball rolling at its minimum. User loyalty really doesn't matter to companies above a certain threshold.
Good thread, btw.
Regarding your poll: I don't have the ability to choose one or the other option. Also, you should have titled it with "read post before voting" or something, because I have to agree that the polls are most often standalone from the messages. This is a fault of design. The poll should be presented at the end of the first post, not isolated above it.
Regarding the topic: I agree with the statements coming from most calm and rational posters here. I think it's easy to misjudge what's going on, but I think you are seeing something real on some level. IMO, we're at a turning point in the history of Reason. All long term products do this. If they survive at all, it's actually somewhat less caused by retaining "the old guard" than what we emotionally prefer to believe. I watched the old guard users vacate Carrara a few years back, only to be replaced by an equal number (more, really) of people willing to cope with the frustrations the old guard grew intolerant of. The same goes for other products. If a product is marketed with any amount of cleverness (either by brute force of fearure claims and price being lower than competition, or by being "fun," which Propellerhead indeed is), it'll survive the worst development failures as long as there's enough income to keep the ball rolling at its minimum. User loyalty really doesn't matter to companies above a certain threshold.
Good thread, btw.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
I used Reason for many years... up to version 3.0 and the combinator. At that point I realized a few things:
1. It was not the simple efficient program that I really liked anymore. And was heading in the direction of the other big DAWs.
2. Logic was the super efficient DAW for my Mac, and even with a small group of high quality VIs from 3rd party companies I could cover everything I wanted to do much better than I could with Reason, without "the rack" and a whole lot of wiring and stuff.
3. As I've watched the addition of Record, it's later being merged back into Reason, the other add-ons, tacked on devices etc. etc. I'm pretty sure I made the right choice.
Too much jumping around in the multiple interfaces, changing views and generally, unnecessary complexity compared with a single arrange window and a show/hide mixer setup.
It sort of reminds me of the old days of looking behind the racks of analog equipment at the tangle of wires and going... WTF?
1. It was not the simple efficient program that I really liked anymore. And was heading in the direction of the other big DAWs.
2. Logic was the super efficient DAW for my Mac, and even with a small group of high quality VIs from 3rd party companies I could cover everything I wanted to do much better than I could with Reason, without "the rack" and a whole lot of wiring and stuff.
3. As I've watched the addition of Record, it's later being merged back into Reason, the other add-ons, tacked on devices etc. etc. I'm pretty sure I made the right choice.
Too much jumping around in the multiple interfaces, changing views and generally, unnecessary complexity compared with a single arrange window and a show/hide mixer setup.
It sort of reminds me of the old days of looking behind the racks of analog equipment at the tangle of wires and going... WTF?