Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

[headquest]

I do believe since this is RE sdk 1.0 that there WILL be improvements. I can honestly see THAT happening sooner rather than later.

Within a year or two, for sure. Unless of course they ditch their spin on it, as they did with Record.

Having watched what Propellerhead have done particularly in recent years, it's quite difficult not to be a little cynical about what is going on here. I don't think that Re is a genuine attempt to gel with a wider development community at all. I think it is a quick way for them to make a ton of cash with little effort of their own, artificially raise the value of their company, sell it to the highest bidder (Korg perhaps?) and retire. The PH founders aren't getting any younger

Check out their company - around 25 employees, even though they claim to produce "the world's most popular music software". They have been going longer that Ableton, who have more than 100 staff. Not exactly investing in their future are they (or in their customers support, etc) ... ?

Quite where that will leave the users who invest in Re remains to be seen. But that's what I'll be doing - watching from afar, and not sending another penny of my hard earned cash their way.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[headquest]

One thing I can't understand is how can you go from a "sequencer" like Logic to the one in Reason

I think you are in Love .
No other explanation

Actually I think some people's creativity benefits from having a change of scenery from time to time ... and Reason certainly provides that!

Problem is (... a concern tbh...) that Reason doesn't provide any easy way back. In terms of music software, it's a Desert Island.

[liquidsound]

One thing I can't understand is how can you go from a "sequencer" like Logic to the one in Reason

I think you are in Love .
No other explanation

Actually I think some people's creativity benefits from having a change of scenery from time to time ... and Reason certainly provides that!

Problem is (... a concern tbh...) that Reason doesn't provide any easy way back. In terms of music software, it's a Desert Island.

Agreed (on changes), both!

[neverenoughfunk]

Actually I think some people's creativity benefits from having a change of scenery from time to time ... and Reason certainly provides that!

i agree 110%

but after a while... you recognize how "nice" your other tools are..

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[myrna]

So what I read until now: (a) people who gave up with reason because of its limitations (99% no vst support, 1% no midi out) and/or PH policy; (b) fanboys telling (a) "hater", "troll", "basher", "negativity keeper" etc.

My conclusion: (1) reason needs vst support. (2) RE is a joke, because Reason is not Protools, we'll never see omnisphere, alchemy, kontakt and similar in RE format. (3) Ttoz is an enthusiast newbie reason user who does not want to see the truth: he will (a) accept this; (b) become a fanboy, calling me "troll" (let's see how things turn out)

[5Lives]

I think a good route for Props would've been to embrace VSTs, but also try to keep what is unique to Reason - the rack, the Reason instruments, and the routing. Maybe it would've been difficult to work out, but it would've been more accessible to a larger user base in my opinion. What they instead have done is not appealed to anybody but existing Reason-only users.

To the folks asking why VSTs are important, I could ask you the same thing about ReFills - why have 1 or more of them? Because it gives you additional colors to paint with. It isn't a genre-specific thing either - if you think hip hop or polka or something have lesser needs in terms of color options, then you are frankly quite close-minded IMO.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[myrna]

@ ttoz
I don't think there is a third way, just accept reason lacks of vst support and that is why 99% of people are selling it in the market place. You wrote: "no, i am sure it is not for that", without explaining. So, my opinion is you just have to "discover" the truth because you, as an enthusiastic newbie reason user, are obviously happy about it (reason is a wonderful piece of software, no doubt). But, maybe (i repeat: MAYBE), in 2022 (after ten years of using it: i started in 2001) you will feel the lack of the most important thing nowadays (vst support) and start to lose patience. That's what i've lost, after years of requests. I mean: if your question is that, the answer is this, and only this, just realize it and be happy with Reason if you love it.

[drez]

So what I read until now: (a) people who gave up with reason because of its limitations (99% no vst support, 1% no midi out) and/or PH policy; (b) fanboys telling (a) "hater", "troll", "basher", "negativity keeper" etc.

My conclusion: (1) reason needs vst support. (2) RE is a joke, because Reason is not Protools, we'll never see omnisphere, alchemy, kontakt and similar in RE format. (3) Ttoz is an enthusiast newbie reason user who does not want to see the truth: he will (a) accept this; (b) become a fanboy, calling me "troll" (let's see how things turn out)

1. What poll showed 99% of reason users left because it didn't have VST support? I've seen you throw around the 99% number in various other threads, so I'm curious where this accurate information comes from? This would mean out of 100 users that left reason, only 1 would have left for a reason other than no VST support. A link will suffice. Otherwise...its a troll comment.

2. Enlighten us on how VST's would be implemented in Reason without looking ridiculous? What would the UI look like? How would you run audio in and out of effects devices? How would you use these within a combinator? How would you route in between rack devices? How would you know which VST's were associated with what combinator or rack?

3. Reason is NOT Protools. You will either (a) accept this or (b) not accept this. Its Reason. If it didn't differentiate itself in the market place, would go the wayside of so many DAW's before it. Alas, it hasn't, so they obviously know their "majority" user base. Business aren't successful because of the "corner cases". They are successful because they know their target audience and sell to them. They've done it for 10+ years. Doesn't look like they are in danger of closing their doors. Everyone won't be happy with their decision. They can live with that as everyone that runs a business lives with it.

4. Ttoz is a seasoned DAW user that is fully capable of making his own decisions just like everyone else in this forum. He doesn't make broad sweeping generalization, he's talking specifics. He's been an active member at KVR for years and heard and contributed a ton. Whether you agree with him or not, he's definitely not "uneducated" about DAW software. Its baffling to reduce his opinion to fanboy when clearly he hasn't shown the characteristics. You're avoiding the comments that he states his negative input on and focus solely on the comments he makes that you disagree with. Why is that?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[myrna]

1. What poll showed 99% of reason users left because it didn't have VST support? I've seen you throw around the 99% number in various other threads, so I'm curious where this accurate information comes from? This would mean out of 100 users that left reason, only 1 would have left for a reason other than no VST support. A link will suffice. Otherwise...its a troll comment.

There's no need for a "pool", it is simply the truth. I wrote "99%" rather than 100%, because I give you the benefit of doubt, LOL. Otherwise, tell me other reasons: the dongle? no midi out?... Let's be serious: it's because of the "no-vst" issue. Nothing new, we've been asking for that at least since 2003.

2. Enlighten us on how VST's would be implemented in Reason without looking ridiculous? What would the UI look like? How would you run audio in and out of effects devices? How would you use these within a combinator? How would you route in between rack devices? How would you know which VST's were associated with what combinator or rack?

I already explained time ago how it works. You don't need to enter the rack. VST support works in the sequencer, as a midi track, bypassing the rack routings GUI. Why? Because Reason is no more the rack nowadays. In 2001 reason was the rack GUI and the "sequencer" was kind of a toy. Nowadays Reason is the sequencer (midi and audio tracks). See MFL or Reaktor. They work INSIDE a main sequencer environment. So can be the reason rack GUI.

3. Reason is NOT Protools. You will either (a) accept this or (b) not accept this. Its Reason. If it didn't differentiate itself in the market place, would go the wayside of so many DAW's before it. Alas, it hasn't, so they obviously know their "majority" user base. Business aren't successful because of the "corner cases". They are successful because they know their target audience and sell to them. They've done it for 10+ years. Doesn't look like they are in danger of closing their doors. Everyone won't be happy with their decision. They can live with that as everyone that runs a business lives with it.

Alas, technology is more and more complex. 10 years ago we had windows 98 and Reason was a revolution. Not nowadays. RTAS versions are made by vst software developers only because Protools is still used in pro-studios. I doubt Spectrasonics or Native Instruments lose time customing their vst for Reason. But you never know...

4. Ttoz is a seasoned DAW user that is fully capable of making his own decisions just like everyone else in this forum. He doesn't make broad sweeping generalization, he's talking specifics. He's been an active member at KVR for years and heard and contributed a ton. Whether you agree with him or not, he's definitely not "uneducated" about DAW software. Its baffling to reduce his opinion to fanboy when clearly he hasn't shown the characteristics. You're avoiding the comments that he states his negative input on and focus solely on the comments he makes that you disagree with. Why is that?

I don't get it. I just say: every newbie reason user is very happy and shows enthusiasm in the beginning, because Reason is a masterpiece and you can go on and on an on playing with it for months. So, if in 2022 Ttoz will still be happy with Reason, even without vst support, good for him. But, as far as I can see here and there, most of people become "fanboys" and don't want to listen to people like me (or headquest), calling us "haters" etc.

Peace.