Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

[myrna]

I dispise FL though. Never liked it.

Then just wonder if ableton live had no vst support (as it was in versions 1,2 and 3)...

[myrna]

So, maybe i've been lucky for over 10 years? Never had negative experiences with Propellerhead. I don't know what you are talking about. I don't understand all this "throwing sxxt" on great people. Of course, I don't agree with their policy, but this does not mean they're "wrong". It is just a matter of needs. They claim "reason is all you need" (i guess they believe it), I think it is not true, because I (and the other 99% ones) need vsts, too. Just this. For the rest, Propellerheads are still great people.

+1.

And the fact that you disagree with their mantra of "Reason is all that and a bag of chips" is ok in my book as well. Wrong "for you" is THE best reason to make decisions.

Wrong for others is right for others. Its the beauty of choices.

For me, its the "vendetta" atmosphere of folks towards Reason that I don't understand. I get that feeling from you most of the time, and then you post something like this which makes me scratch my head Maybe its Italians?

just kidding

It is called "language barrier", I guess. "vendetta" was a strong term they used to explain my ban, and I have never understood it. As If i was a thief or a murderer? Very offensive, after 10 years of loyal support and 3 times betatester. Of course i was sad about all this misunderstanding, but again: it is just a language/cultural barrier, nothing else. I am just talking about my (musical) needs, never offended anyone. Peace.

[KevWestBeats]

I dispise FL though. Never liked it.

Then just wonder if ableton live had no vst support (as it was in versions 1,2 and 3)...

pirated it in college at version 3 loved it lol

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[KevWestBeats]

I dispise FL though. Never liked it.

Then just wonder if ableton live had no vst support (as it was in versions 1,2 and 3)...

pirated it in college at version 3 loved it lol

HEY stop that nonsense right now. Don't you DARE talk about admitting to that in my topic.

which part? I own a license now lol I only pirated stuff in college. Or do u mean loving live?

[RockNice]

I read your post in it's entirety and generally agree on the hyped
version of Reason 6.5 and ran into the same issues with getting it
to function properly in regards to the key and the Rack extension
Licensing.

Now you have to compensate for latency issues and you clearly have
to have an abundance of space on your computer to do this music thing
anyway I'm not too impressed with the current RE's right now accept
for a couple someone said it's for getting out good ideas fast and
that I totally agree on that fact as well now on the other Reason is
for the intuitive Artist Music Producer who puts in hard work that's
who

Reason is for why I say this because you have to work for your sound
Their sound engine out the box is crap but if you can Mix Edit and
Master and do sound design then Reason is for you they have that SSL
Board now which is a great help also but you have to be able get your
sound and mix together before you hit the SSL and this is from my
personal stand point and experience if you can route cables and get
some cool ass sounds even if they are your own cause some of Reasons
out of the box sounds are shot to $#!% seriously and I'm not knocking
it at all I've used Reason since vers. 1

Reason depends on you the Producer the artist who puts in work cats
who use Reason to make a quick beat without a mix they should get
Fruity Loops and punch buttons Fruity has a nice sound engine out the
box all you have to do is throw on a sound enhancer if that Ableton
has a great sound engine as well and I've worked on many DAW's

So not to toot my own horn here but Reason is for serious Producers
who know what they are doing like yourself who made this post I want
a Mac so I can get Logic I just don't have Mac Money right now but I
will get there and thanks for letting me know about the used sales
because I can use some bread right now myself I'm sitting up here
scheming on who I can rob right now LOL.

[eXode]

Recall in the other thread that eXode (one of the most well know refill developers) said he can't make refills that use any Re products, or else he immediately limits his market. So he will have to stick to just using stock Reason devices. And as such Re is a complete wasted investment.

this is absolutely ridiculous mate. I can't give any logical credit to that at ALL.

I believe that my original quote has been misinterpreted a bit. I'm posting the original quote below for convenience:

But in terms of using RE in a creative way (and you would be one of the absolute top blokes to do that!!) ... this is no longer possible. You will have to either use your RE devices and understand other users don't own them, or stick to using Reason's stock devices and waste the investment you make in RE... !!!

I don't really see how this would make sense for somebody in your position ;)

Cheers.

Yes. I've actually already responded to a thread in the props user forum that there isn't really a device today that I feel makes sense to develop patches for. That might change when/if we get more advanced synths in Reason (Predator springs to mind). I mean I can do a Predator RE refill and still mix all the stock devices and layer several Predators in Combi's and all that usual Reason stuff, but it would still be refills specific for a certain RE. I wouldn't dream of doing a refill that is dependent of more than one RE either.

Another thing that can be a problem is "utility" RE's. Imagine if someone makes an awesome CV processing RE that still costs money. I don't think that anyone except sound designers may see benefit for something like that, yet it leaves you helpless because why bother making patches if people won't ever buy that RE. I think we have that problem with Pulsar now, because it's only free for a limited period of time. That throws me off completely because that means that not every 6.5 user will have it.

And this leads me to my last (at the moment) concern about RE. Will we stop seeing devices with major upgrades of Reason (and only RE?). I don't know but I seriously hope not because there's comfort in knowing that every user of i.e. version 7 has the same basic tools. I just hope it doesn't stop with what we got last in R6.

Mabybe there will be a transition phase, maybe not. Only time will tell.

[headquest]

eXode - it's possible that in trying to explain (to somebody who is new to Reason and seems unfamiliar with your work) in simple terms how your refills combine devices, and how that paradigm is now *challenged* - that I over simplified, but I do not feel I misrepresented your main point that it makes no sense to do so incorporating Re, unless there comes one which is a sufficiently big seller.

If you read my posts in full I think that is clear anyway - but sorry if you feel otherwise, and thanks for posting your original post, which makes the same point I was making even more clearly anyway!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[headquest]

Really? I genuinely don't see it, but I guess that's my bad then ... sorry!

So if eXode will now make a Refill that uses the Pulsar, that will be great. A lot of Reason users (myself included) would not understand how to get the best out of that thing in combination with other Reason devices, and his sound design expertise will be a huge help. As ttoz says, it's always a benefit even being able to look at the patching as a lesson in how its done, quite apart from using the actual patches.

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

[FaX]

I dispise FL though. Never liked it.

Then just wonder if ableton live had no vst support (as it was in versions 1,2 and 3)...

Actually it had no VSTi support - It did support VST's.

[myrna]

vst/vsti? for me there is no difference, if you support this you must support that, too. I remember well, it was 2003 and i wanted to buy it, but had to wait till version 4. And it was 9 years ago. Ableton could stay closed like Propellerhead, because of the "instability issues supporting vst" and keep claiming: "Live gives all you need: operator, sampler, impulse, M4L and tons of native effects. If you need external plugins just open another daw and use rewire". But, hey, this is ridicolous in 2012 Just wonder if evry daw out there had its own "plugin format", like RE. "ablin", "FLin", Reapin" etc. What a stupid mess and lost of time/money for the user. Luckily, there is one only standard (vst) and that's more than enough: you buy that ONCE, you play it anywhere.

[FaX]

vst/vsti? for me there is no difference, if you support this you must support that, too. I remember well, it was 2003 and i wanted to buy it, but had to wait till version 4. And it was 9 years ago. Ableton could stay closed like Propellerhead, because of the "instability issues supporting vst" and keep claiming: "Live gives all you need: operator, sampler, impulse, M4L and tons of native effects. If you need external plugins just open another daw and use rewire". But, hey, this is ridicolous.

Actually Live worked very well with VST and AU effects up to that point.
Personally it was unique in the market place as an audio only tool and I personally think it would have survived better as a company had they pushed the whole granular / internal sampling / audio manipulation paradigm to the extreme rather than making it another "me too" DAW.

I stuck with Live from V1.0 to V6.0 and quite frankly it lost its charm after 3.0 - there was an elegant simplicity to it's operation back then - sure they could have added sub mixing / grouping go channels and something akin to racks using custom audio processing devices and use really unique audio processing and mangling tools and made it into something quite unique. It worked really well with rewire was great when using a hardware sequencer and synths to sync up and record and track stuff and was shed loads of fun to use in the process.

Saying Reason gives you all you need to make music is not false advertising. It does contain pretty much everything you need to make music. You seem to be confusing need and want. A guitar gives me all I need to make music too (but I may want more) and that's where other tools come in to play.

If I had to sell all my hardware tomorrow I could still make music with Reason as much as i could with an acoustic guitar or the piano downstairs in the living room. Just stop confusing need with want for a few minutes, or is that level of thinking beyond you ?


If i might add VST is not the only standard - use Logic it's AU, use Protools it's AAX, and a VST does nothing without a suitable host either.

[myrna]

in 2003 vst was still a baby. It's 2012, i don't see how a serious musician could manage without vst plugins, apart ultraorthodox "purists", minimalists or similar.
Regardin AU and AAX those are only derivative copycat's vst versions for apple ("we are different" bullshit) and protools ("we are protools"). Stupid "we are better" policies, not useful and negative for the end user.

[schnapsglas]

Reason was always different. I've never really got into it and panicked when they released Record. It was inevitable they would turn it into a DAW... without VST.

I think it's a cool concept. Not that I would ever use it.

What I would use it for is the super-cheap Reason Essential which could be a good educational tool. And it helps you to limit yourself and focus on the damn producing. Unfortunately most of us need more than that.

Not sure if many would agree with this sentiment but I think Reason might be the DAW that gets bought most to be never used. It just doesn't fit with a lot of workflow. Maybe I will achieve zen-like state one day and trash every VSTi and get on with Reason and find peace, but I think I'm beyond salvation.