Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

[Trakstar]

Interesting point. But most instruments/effects can be released as a single product in most of those formats. Re though requires a rework, or even a complete rethink, so as such it requires more effort for a developer who is already committed to the other formats and can release those as a single product.

If the market is flooded with lots of Re devices, then there are only so many Reason users to purchase them, and limited demand for some devices will not justify the work put into them in terms of financial return. On the other hand, if there are only a few Re products developed those will no doubt have some success, but the format/platform itself will be only a minor success.

And what happens about presets? How many Re products so far included presets that made use of the other Reason devices? For example, the presets that Propellerhead include for their own devices tend to be wrapped in combinators with multiple devices, using the creative benefits of Reason's routing. How about Re products - have the developers (so far) taken the time to create decent effects patches that integrate their Re product with the rest of the rack...? Or is it just up to the users to work all that out for themselves?

Interesting points,

[drez]

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

headquest, this really is a silly post.

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't buy presets for devices they purchase?

[liquidsound]

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

headquest, this really is a silly post.

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't buy presets for devices they purchase?

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

[Trakstar]

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

headquest, this really is a silly post.

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't buy presets for devices they purchase?

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

+1, thats pathetic business etiquette

[saturdaysaint]

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

headquest, this really is a silly post.

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't buy presets for devices they purchase?

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

You? The vast majority of RE's I've downloaded (and ALL of the instruments) came with well integrated preset libraries (and it's great, I'll add, to have one patch system instead of a zany little preset/patch system for every softsynth) and some have Combinator libraries that show them off in different contexts. It's up to the device maker. Which ones are you referring to?

[myrna]

(and all of the instruments)

All means 3? Sorry, but apart polisix, gt mellotron and radical piano, which other instruments in RE format can you find?...

[drez]

But wait - what am I suggesting here? That we first of all pay to buy the Re and then pay again to buy the presets for it?? Oops... clearly the whole thing is a bit whack.

headquest, this really is a silly post.

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't buy presets for devices they purchase?

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

You? The vast majority of RE's I've downloaded (and ALL of the instruments) came with well integrated preset libraries (and it's great, I'll add, to have one patch system instead of a zany little preset/patch system for every softsynth) and some have Combinator libraries that show them off in different contexts. It's up to the device maker. Which ones are you referring to?

Yeah, i don't know what you're talking about. Every RE I have that stores presets HAS presets. You don't pay extra for them. Your statement doesn't make sense. Do you have any RE's at all?

[headquest]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[mrdr]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

[saturdaysaint]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

As I said, developers can (and should, for god's sake!) contain complete Combinators in the RE install. Pulsar has some great ones that show it off as both a modulator and an instrument. You should see an RE folder bookmark in the patch explorer that contains all RE Combinators.

I'd love to see more very simple sound generating RE's that use Combinators for everything else: filtering, modulation, arpeggiation, etc. The beauty of modularity is that programmers don't need to re-invent the wheel (and take up space in the interface) unless they have something significant to add. Heh, I'm sure someone will figure it out.

[saturdaysaint]

some of them include very fancy combinator presets.. they are int he section "rack extension presets" on the browser pane.

i really want to hear from the 57 people that voted as me being silly, i'd like them to say "i voted this" and explain why. I think that's a fair question after my thoughtful post.

Ttoz, I f*&%*ng love Reason too and I voted for "silly" because I think the KVR for sale section and this forum are far less than a tempest in a teapot. You can do amazing things with what's already there - if you're uncertain about the future of RE, try to tune out for a few months and see how it shakes out before you spend too much $$$.

Props are a solid company with a track record for stable, strong product development and for pushing long lasting technologies. They can seem slow to listen compared to Reaper or whatever, but they're even good at correcting course (Record, Reason's years of slow releases, sequencer complaints, RE's). You're in good hands - I think you should stop worrying about the tools and see what happens.

[headquest]

some of them include very fancy combinator presets.. they are int he section "rack extension presets" on the browser pane.

Thanks for a straight answer mate

And I agree with saturdaysaint's points too.

I guess that making Combinator presets is an additional job for any developer making Re devices. It also requires them to be experienced working in the Reason environment.

i really want to hear from the 57 people that voted as me being silly, i'd like them to say "i voted this" and explain why. I think that's a fair question after my thoughtful post.

Sadly, I think what we are mostly hearing from is people who have no interest in understanding why some are selling Reason at all - people who just want to attack those who are no longer flying the Reason flag, and be true fanboys. Which is a pity.

I remember five years back when drez and I would be there together arguing in favour of Reason against BONES and others... but I am entitled to change my mind, and the fact is I don't like the way Reason has subsequently developed...

Fact is, Reason used to be an awesome rack of instruments and devices that I could rewire into my proper DAW. It served so many great needs, right out of the box. But then the Props decided to enter the DAW business, firstly with the failed Record, and then grafting that failed product into Reason itself. And now Re....

I just feel they have gone from having a first rate music rack to having a third rate DAW, with a heap of money spinning options for them on the side. That's my opinion, and you're all welcome to differ. I've paid my money, I've used the programme for over a decade, I've taught classes in it.... but no more. And isn't that what this thread is about understanding? Why some of us are leaving? Or did I misunderstand (yet again!!)

[eXode]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

From many of the RE's I've tried not many come with actual combinators, just their own patches. Pulsar (which is props own) come with both "instrument" and "effect" type combinators but it is an area that has not been widely adopted by other dev's yet, sadly.

[eXode]

And that kind of brings me to a point that I do feel as a sound designer. What is my incentive to do combinators based around a certain odd effect? None atm tbh.

Like I said it's not true for everything, I might look at the Polysix (for layering in Combis) and perhaps Predator when it comes out, but of the other RE's that are currently available there's really not much that is exciting to do sound design for.

Take Sugar Bytes for instance. They should have released all of them effects in a bundle ffs! Can you imagine what I, and other sound designers, could have done with them in Combinators, and having all of them at once in one combi for some finger triggered stutter madness?

They should have taken the time to sell them all in one package and hired some sound designer to do some wicked Combinator patches for people to get started with and It would have been very popular even if it would have been more expensive. I love their stuff but I think they made a bad decision for how they choose to sell their RE's. But hey, that is their choice.