Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

[headquest]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

From many of the RE's I've tried not many come with actual combinators, just their own patches. Pulsar (which is props own) come with both "instrument" and "effect" type combinators but it is an area that has not been widely adopted by other dev's yet, sadly.

Thanks eXode. I agree that is sad... but not unexpected. If developers are porting over their existing VST product, they won't want to spend an age doing sound design in Reason at the same time.

Surely the danger is that Reason becomes a rack full of disparate devices that each has its own rationale and presets, but where none of the benefits of the rack are exploited, except by users who have the sound design expertise to create great patches....

[liquidsound]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

[mrdr]

[FaX]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

From many of the RE's I've tried not many come with actual combinators, just their own patches. Pulsar (which is props own) come with both "instrument" and "effect" type combinators but it is an area that has not been widely adopted by other dev's yet, sadly.

Thanks eXode. I agree that is sad... but not unexpected. If developers are porting over their existing VST product, they won't want to spend an age doing sound design in Reason at the same time.

Surely the danger is that Reason becomes a rack full of disparate devices that each has its own rationale and presets, but where none of the benefits of the rack are exploited, except by users who have the sound design expertise to create great patches....

As I probably didn't articulate earlier I think this is the crux of the issue.
Personally I don't see it as an issue as I like the idea that I can now not only pick and choose my preferred Reason devices but I can create custom patches using component combinations that other people may not have (for me it's a big selling point - especially when I exploit the built in sampling features so much also).
For people who don't want to or aren't welling to peak under the hood and patch away, it becomes far more problematic.
It's quite obvious that many people download a Re try it out and never bother to experiment with it in the context of a signal chain, combined insert or send effect or as a combinator instrument with more complex patching.
The sad reality is that Reason is always more about the sum total of it's parts and not just its individual devices on a single use basis.
The same holds true of Rack Extensions and if you're going to get the most out of them you really need to delve into some level of custom programming at some stage or other to really reap the benefits from the current 6.5 technology focus.

[saturdaysaint]

Maybe some of you aren't reading/understanding correctly...

My question is: do they include presets that include other Reason devices in the way that Propellerhead's own instruments and effects do? Or do you have to do those yourself?

From many of the RE's I've tried not many come with actual combinators, just their own patches. Pulsar (which is props own) come with both "instrument" and "effect" type combinators but it is an area that has not been widely adopted by other dev's yet, sadly.

Thanks eXode. I agree that is sad... but not unexpected. If developers are porting over their existing VST product, they won't want to spend an age doing sound design in Reason at the same time.

Surely the danger is that Reason becomes a rack full of disparate devices that each has its own rationale and presets, but where none of the benefits of the rack are exploited, except by users who have the sound design expertise to create great patches....

It's early days. Frankly, Combinators wouldn't make a ton of sense for a lot of the current crop, especially since both synths have effects sections (tipping their VST origins, perhaps).

I think Exode's slightly disappointed tone speaks to his skill and the power of existing tools more than anything. The things that will most capitalize on programming skills are currently in short supply - tools that enable new CV tricks (which don't have a broad market and it's hard to think of something you can't do in Thor) and breakthrough synths. Also, some of things in the pipeline are shortcuts for beginner-intermediate users that a level 60 guy like eXode has little use for (ie crossfader REs). Since Props include something for the advanced programmer in just about every instrument/effect, the programmer side of me isn't blown away either even as the mixer side of me is excited to have a broader range of effects.

Even so, it's a step in the right direction for programmers if Props can focus on core features instead of sonics, which were the focus of complaints for a long time.

[drez]

I don't get it.

We've got:

+people that are complaining because we can't make combinator presets that mix and match RE's because not everyone is guranteed to buy them.

+Then we've got people that want VST's which would force us to be in the same boat. You couldn't integrate those into combinators either for the exact same premise.

Those of you that want VST's all you would get are whatever presets you get for that VST alone. What's the difference between offering just patches for individual RE's? Nothing.

With Ableton people sell Instrument Racks with just Ableton devices like Puremagnetik. I don't hear people up in arms saying "why don't people make Ableton Live Instrument Racks with VST's in them?". Some people make whole racks in Live and sell them. Other people just make VST's or RE's. Other people program patches. What's the difference?

If the power is truly in the combinator or the rack or pick any other host's technology for chaining or creating your own "presets", each scenario has its own hurdles to jump through.

[eXode]

Thanks eXode. I agree that is sad... but not unexpected. If developers are porting over their existing VST product, they won't want to spend an age doing sound design in Reason at the same time.

Ports is one thing. I'm talking even more about some of the stuff that was made specifically as RE's (like the aforementioned Sugar Bytes).

[drez]

Exode, hit up Urs and do a Uhbik set of combinators. I'd auto-buy it.

[eXode]

Exode, hit up Urs and do a Uhbik set of combinators. I'd auto-buy it.

Haha, cheers! It might be an idea... ;)

Seems the Uhbik's been pushed back again though, sadly.

[FaX]

Exode, hit up Urs and do a Uhbik set of combinators. I'd auto-buy it.

Haha, cheers! It might be an idea...

Seems the Uhbik's been pushed back again though, sadly.

The Uhbik's are the ones I've been waiting for most and the delay is quite frankly understandable but pissing me off some none the less.

[Richard_Synapse]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

[Trakstar]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

excuses, excuses, excuses

at the moment Im more into the immediacy of orion 8.5 even though I also have Reason 6.5 with some RE's waiting to be installed, and now there is another 6.51 update to download and I have only just downloaded the 6.5 not long ago. Sometimes it feels like Im going around in circles with updates and quick fixes

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Trakstar]

Are the synapse FX straight ports out of orion 8.5 such as the new Vintage EQ and Chorus, or are they different?

[myrna]

RE is the end of commercial combinator refills. I remember well there were kind of combi refills with "you need this and that extra refill" that of course were free. SO it will be now. Unless Some REs are top sellers... but I doubt.