Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[headquest]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

surely the whole point if you are selling an Re device is to provide those combinator presets which show off that "magic" to the full...

[Trakstar]

Are the synapse FX straight ports out of orion 8.5 such as the new Vintage EQ and Chorus, or are they different?

if they are that's VERY cheeky to charge that much.

4 effects for the entire cost of orion or close enough too. anyway....

sorry to go OT in my own topic, but i feel since there have been a lot of complaints about prices of RE on other boards this is actually a valid one.

Its been very informative reading as I wanted to know a lot of what has been said and discussed anyway, so I guess some thanks should be in order anyway. Concerning the question you asked at the beginning, you put it in a way that was just asking to be answered sarcastically, even though you obviously have some good and valid points as to what has been said and spoken already, so I think most people "Generally agree" with what you are saying apart from all the die hard fan boys that have just jumped on the reason bandwagon with version 6.5 and act as though they have been avid Reason and propellerhead supporters since version 01. I started with Reason version 01 back in 2003 just before the 2nd update came out, and it was the best software I used at the time. But, times and software change and it is a matter of finding what works best and sticking with it.

[remylebeau777]

I used to be a Reason fan from 2.5 - 5 but Propellerhead as a company rubbed me the wrong way they are going with Reason. I remember reporting a bug in the self contain settings a year ago and guess what? the bug is still there,I was told it was fixed and that turned out to be untrue. It's just the hint of arrogance that turned me off, the lack of beatslicing integrated to them "funneling" a little bit of features in every update to the slow development it all adds up over time. Not only that but the fact that they added the cumbersome UI of Record to Reason messed up a beautiful thing for me coupled with a dongle and logging into the internet to use music software.smh Idk about anyone else but when I pay for things I want to feel like I own what I payed for and be able to use what I payed for at anytime with no hassle or being chained to a dongle that is prone to get lost/broken or an internet connection that is not guaranteed. I'm in the process of jumping ship because Reason became what it was against(like everything else but still remaining an extremely closed system) the good cpu usage is out the window now that Rack extensions are there along with a cumbersome interface and a company that does not listen to their users at all. With all of the quality free vst's and payed for stuff out there and flexible Daws like Reaper I don't blame people for jumping ship.

[myrna]

I used to be a Reason fan from 2.5 - 5 but Propellerhead as a company rubbed me the wrong way they are going with Reason. I remember reporting a bug in the self contain settings a year ago and guess what? the bug is still there,I was told it was fixed and that turned out to be untrue. It's just the hint of arrogance that turned me off, the lack of beatslicing integrated to them "funneling" a little bit of features in every update to the slow development it all adds up over time. Not only that but the fact that they added the cumbersome UI of Record to Reason messed up a beautiful thing for me coupled with a dongle and logging into the internet to use music software.smh Idk about anyone else but when I pay for things I want to feel like I own what I payed for and be able to use what I payed for at anytime with no hassle or being chained to a dongle that is prone to get lost/broken or an internet connection that is not guaranteed. I'm in the process of jumping ship because Reason became what it was against(like everything else but still remaining an extremely closed system) the good cpu usage is out the window now that Rack extensions are there along with a cumbersome interface and a company that does not listen to their users at all. With all of the quality free vst's and payed for stuff out there and flexible Daws like Reaper I don't blame people for jumping ship.

I told them: leave reason as it was in version 5 and introduce vst support and reason devices as custom vst plugins in Record. In this way Record would have been a success, a real professional host, and not the commercial failure it was (because of not being a vst host). Regarding Reason, well... just read what it has become now... alas.

But they did not listen to me...

[mellotronaut]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

surely the whole point if you are selling an Re device is to provide those combinator presets which show off that "magic" to the full...

this shows, nothing is thought out well. devs do their coding work, deliver and wait for their pay cheques, but the whole Reason fun begins with cables and combinators. why don't the props deliver some combis for every RE? hire someone especially for RE combi patches? why no bundles? why no rebates in all possible directions, why so stiff? the only clever move is the 30 days trial without limitations. uff uff uff

[FaX]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

I think he's referring to the fact that most of the RE comes without preset at the moment of purchase, this happens when you download a BETA!, but here you will need to purchase presets for an EMPTY device.
Additional presets are for sell of course, but no preset to start with?
Who's silly now?

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

surely the whole point if you are selling an Re device is to provide those combinator presets which show off that "magic" to the full...

this shows, nothing is thought out well. devs do their coding work, deliver and wait for their pay cheques, but the whole Reason fun begins with cables and combinators. why don't the props deliver some combis for every RE? hire someone especially for RE combi patches? why no bundles? why no rebates in all possible directions, why so stiff? the only clever move is the 30 days trial without limitations. uff uff uff

Why expect miracles and everything perfect within a 1 month window of Rack extension launch date ?
Seriously give it time people.

[KevWestBeats]

and I would rather read a explanation for this

Sorry. My mistake.
I tested the Synapse plugins and of course there are no presets.
Then I was considering Ozone and I didn't see presets there either....
This deserve

Our effect plugins have only 3-5 knobs so presets make no sense. Most of the magic is in the CV and sidechaining. Of course for a synth or effect with more parameters we'd deliver presets.

Richard

surely the whole point if you are selling an Re device is to provide those combinator presets which show off that "magic" to the full...

this shows, nothing is thought out well. devs do their coding work, deliver and wait for their pay cheques, but the whole Reason fun begins with cables and combinators. why don't the props deliver some combis for every RE? hire someone especially for RE combi patches? why no bundles? why no rebates in all possible directions, why so stiff? the only clever move is the 30 days trial without limitations. uff uff uff

Why expect miracles and everything perfect within a 1 month window of Rack extension launch date ?
Seriously give it time people.

Its the way of the world lol. People expect everything to be perfect upon release. All Props did was open the store and release a few of the Re. Personally I think if its just ported vsts then why even bother using them in Reason at the price point? Not saying they are too pricey but I am saying that for the price you pay for the same things in a vst bundle in some cases are cheaper and transferable if you decide later you don't need them. I like the idea of the RE format but it needs some things ironed out.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[drez]

well i succumbed and bought a couple i thought were essential that i couldn't get the sound of any other way

FET, TSAR (full), Synapse CHORUS, ETCH, BUFFRE (so easy to use), POLAR (best way to get a doubled vocal no doubt)

i will absolutely not budge and buy any more no way, like what i already just did is not bad enough



I guess i have to change my sig now.

sigh.

Hypocrite Theo.

See how easy that was?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[eXode]

yeah but $80 for a nice sounding but 4 knob ring mod? that's just sill re pricing if there ever was any. Silly plug in pricing. I would make a be that Richard could not sell a single copy as a vst at that price, not one. That little plug in is 20% of the cost of reason.. it's just, again, silly, and off putting.

thankfully i found the ring modulator in Kong yesterday.. yay... it doesn't do the low frequencies (which to me sound like a nice kind of tremolo anyway), but it does the higher ones just fine.

The Synapse one does sound incredibly nice imho, I'd stick out my cheek and say that it is very close to the real MoogerFooger Ring Mod. The Bomb Factory MoogerFooger Bundle (4 moog pedals inc Ring Mod) is $599 USD (for measure). I really don't think that the lack of knobs should be a justification for a lower price in itself.

Kong Ring Mod is OK but depending on what you want it's not all that. For instance one signal is always locked to sine. On the Synapse RM you can use sidechain to replace the sine with (i.e. use waveforms from Pulsar or even other audio).

That is my own very personal opinion about it. :)

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[eXode]

Malström is not a Ring Mod, there is no other true Ring Mod except for Kong in Reason (of the stock devices). Malström uses AM which is also a form of signal multiplication but there are differences. On a RM only the sum and differences of the two signals are heard. On AM the original signals are also present.

You can also do AM with the Pulveriser, that LFO goes well up into audio range (12 Khz).

I think that perhaps you need to be a tinkerer or modular head to fully appreciate a full on Ring Mod that allows you to use both X and Y inputs, because Ring Modulation is not only about modulating audio or to create the "Dalek" effect.

For instance you could use Ring Modulation to multiply two CV signals to create interesting modulation.

Also regarding price, see my post again on the Bomb Factory Moogerfooger bundle. $599 USD for 4 pedals (where one is the RM).

But sure, it's up to people to decide if it's worth it to them. I agree that is's a niche effect that will probably only be interesting to a few people.

funny bit is i never seem to hear released music using the classic Rm sound.. i wonder if it is a fancy effect we all love to have but never actually use?

p.s kong is not the only way to do RM in reason without the synapse.. i have gone through the combi insert fx patches and the maelstron can be used as well.

And exode i just will NOT spend $80 on a ring modulator. It is not an effect i use often enough to care.

$80 is something i have to think about for effects that do alot more than an RM.

I have never seen a ring modulator for this outrageous amount of money in ANY format, ever, since the history of plugins.

I have seen them in $80 multifx that do alot more, but never a one trick pony RM for $80 in vst /au / land.

Richard is wrong in this case and it's that simple and people will vote with their wallet. the price is out of this world.

TBH i would still have to think about it at $25