Are you pissed off at Reason?

[hibidy]

Ok, on topic, no bull.

I don't like the reason paradigm. I wish I could though.

see ya!

[krucial]

Cowards like headquest should voice his disgust at Reason and its users in the PUF tho. Be a man, after all your are still in the safe confines of your home.

I have no disgust either for Reason or most of its users that I know. And I have been an active contributor to the PUF for many years.

But feel free to insult a stranger why don't you? That's not cowardly at all

No I will do it to your face if given the opportunity. I like how you play the oh I know such and such user, reason is cool, I love this about it, its a godsend. Dude you are a hypocrite. You pretend to be coming from a balanced point of view but I see through your crap and I am tired of it. Every blog I read about Reason you are there. Why? You are here ranting calling people fanboys etc. What is your username over PUF?

[headquest]

Sarcasm is a typical "fanboy" OR "basher" trait. Its wing-thinking and insults our intelligence. He wouldn't tell us that, you would. If you are going to say something just say it. If you want to have rational discussion, then keep it rational.

Well, having been called a "hypocrite", "insane", "paid to bash Reason", and a "coward" so far in what was previously a very rational conversation, I'm actually a little upset drez... so forgive the sarcasm. I guess it's fine for you and your friends to continue with the personal attacks while I just turn the other cheek right?

Bottom line - you mistook something I said and responded with an insult, followed by a bunch of others who just signed up to join in. As I've said several times, I'm sorry my point came across the wrong way to you. Maybe it's time for you to call off the hounds and get over it. Maybe it's time to accept that I wasn't saying or meaning what you took it as.

But if your next response is another self-justification for yours and/or your friends hostility, I won't be bothering to reply. Last chance to do the right thing here.

[headquest]

Every blog I read about Reason you are there.

The only blog I even read is CDM. I rarely comment there, and can't even think when the last time was. Perhaps you are confusing me with somebody else.

What is your username over PUF?

AJEales

[bluedad]

on topic, please. don't drag the arguments out, I just gave krucial a little time out.

[braj]

I'm pretty sure personal attacks aren't allowed around here.

[headquest]

Thanks guys...

[chk071]

(Why be mad? Because it's obviously draining developer time that could be spent on fixing existing bugs and adding functionality to existing VSTs

Noone has to develop rack extensions actually. It's just that they expect benefit by doing so obviously.

[mellotronaut]

all i can say, is Bitwig you and me

[braj]

I'm interested to see how it all plays out, like watching a sports game. I don't think it will negatively impact most developers who likely won't want to put all their eggs in one basket. I'm not personally interested in Reason unless the evolve Rewire or the core app significantly.

[headquest]

I'm interested to see how it all plays out, like watching a sports game. I don't think it will negatively impact most developers who likely won't want to put all their eggs in one basket.

Agreed. As I said on page one in response to the OP, I don't think there is anything to worry about. Re will find its place in the market, and my guess is that it will level out to be a small niche market that will appeal to some developers, not to others. It's not like Waves and NI are going to drop all else and just start making Re devices! It will all be fine.

[drez]

(Pissed off means angry on this side of the pond )

All of the sudden I see and hear about all these developers lining up to create plug ins for Reason. Now, I was fine when Reason was an all-in-one audio application. Not for me, for sure, but I could see the attraction with people who like to live with that type of limitation. Easy to become intimate with your tool. I get it.

But now, Propellerheads decided that it was their mission to create yet another plug in format, rather than just equip their software to one of the standard plug in formats that already exist. Why be mad? Because it's obviously draining developer time that could be spent on fixing existing bugs and adding functionality to existing VSTs or creating totally new ones. FFS, if you want to use a tool that lets you use plug-ins, there are a healthy crop of DAWs out that all offer fantastic functionality suited to any style of musician.

Its not draining developer time. Those developers are developing on whatever they think will generate sales and promote their product. I'm fairly certain the VST Dev's building RE's did so on their own accord. My first thought would be that they feel they can reach an audience that would never buy a VST because they only use Reason and they see it as an additional revenue stream.

Will they make more money by creating RE's "and" VST's? That's what they are going to find out.

The Propellerheads are making a smart business decision by getting paid on every single RE sold. This model has proven successful, from Apple to Amazon. If they say they want to make a new plugin standard and developers say yes we'll devlop to it, then what's the problem? The developers are the one's taking the risk and its their product that they choose to create.

[myrna]

you keep on calling RE "a new plugin standard". It is just "third party reason racks" made out of old (and quite simple, actually) vst plugins. Infact they are different from original plugins. And that explains why there are no upgrades, discounts etc. Never heard one has to pay twice for the same instrument (SAME, not "similar"), for instance if you buy z3ta+ now you'll get AU version, too, for free, as soon as it will be out. Or: if you buy discovery VST and then decide to buy the AU version, you have a very big discount. So: RE is a nice thing, but please don't call it "a new plugin format", like it was something developers can compare to VST/AU. an instrument/effect is always IDENTIC, does not matter if in VST or AU. It is not the RE case. Besides, I doubt you can build a complex vst (like omnisphere, alchemy, kontakt etc.) in RE format. REs are always light or simple instruments/effects.

By the way, i gave up with reason because of no-vst support. The fact they introduced RE means:
(1) that they DID WANT to introduce plugins support;
(2) that they CANNOT do that, because of reason's own (code) limitations (see the PDC and the crashes issues)

[drez]

you keep on calling RE "a new plugin standard". It is just "third party reason racks" made out of old (and quite simple, actually) vst plugins. Infact they are different from original plugins. And that explains why there are no upgrades, discounts etc. Never heard one has to pay twice for the same instrument (SAME, not "similar"), for instance if you buy z3ta+ now you'll get AU version, too, for free, as soon as it will be out. Or: if you buy discovery VST and then decide to buy the AU version, you have a very big discount. So: RE is a nice thing, but please don't call it "a new plugin format", like it was something developers can compare to VST/AU. an instrument/effect is always IDENTIC, does not matter if in VST or AU. It is not the RE case. Besides, I doubt you can build a complex vst (like omnisphere, alchemy, kontakt etc.) in RE format. REs are always light or simple instruments/effects.

By the way, i gave up with reason because of no-vst support. The fact they introduced RE means:
(1) that they DID WANT to introduce plugins support;
(2) that they CANNOT do that, because of reason's own (code) limitations (see the PDC and the crashes issues)

I agree, i think implementing something like omnisphere would be impossible at this point in the RE SDK. Maybe it will someday but I would think it would be quite some time. The beauty of the modular nature of Reason is that you can build complex things out of more "simple" things. A complex system is, after all, a collection of simpler things.

I'd rather not have some monster synth, but a series of excellent modules that can be put together like "legos" (you coined that phrase in another thread ) and build whatever we can think of. I think Dev's could easily scavenge their code from their VST's and implement the "blocks" once the SDK matures after while.

But I see your point RE's will be their own things, mostly because of the current limitation of the SDK but also because of the routing options with CV and Audio inputs. You don't get those on any of the other formats, so that makes them different by default.

[dalor]

I never 'got' the Reason hype. Last time I tried Reason it would have been around 2002(?) *because* of the rumor Prodigy was using it on their album. I gave it a shot and didn't like the workflow *at all*. Silly 'cabling' at the back of racks, non resizeable windows, and overall, just.. Ughh.

Unless I missed something, rack extensions don't offer anything new that VST's can't already do - please correct me if I'm wrong. Paying twice for the same plugin? - Dream on! (for the principle of it).

No VST = No go!