Are you pissed off at Reason?

[kae]

Mackies?

That's what the utility mixers look like in Reason

Ok. The 14ch mixer you mean? Then you won't have the mixer eq's & dynamics on each channel then?

[drez]

Mackies?

That's what the utility mixers look like in Reason

Ok. The 14ch mixer you mean? Then you won't have the mixer eq's & dynamics on each channel then?

The SSL's? No. But I find that I rarely do the same thing twice with the processing. I use spiders quite often and move individual parts out to the SSL as needed, or parallel process them, etc. the 14ch mixer is generally fine for my needs from that perspective. I'd be doing insert effects on most of them anyway, why not do them in the combinator?

But if you run every single channel through the SSl, then yes, that would be painful.

[damoog]

Pissed off at reason?,NOT A CHANCE!...propellerhead reason ticks all the right boxes for me,it just 'works' for me

It a sad music making world we live in when people flame other people for using different DAWS/whatever to make music with,THE END PRODUCT IS WHAT MATTERS,I mean get a grip already

[jacqueslacouth]

I realise it can be taken with a grain of salt, but 46355 likes on the Props Facebook page might give a loose marketing survey to the potential customer base. Let's be honest, not that many people are going to be looking up audio software pages to like unless they have some interest in it,….so lets say as a developer this represents the ENTIRE PH user base and you aim at say 10% market penetration (probably not unreasonable considering the eager wait on plugin ability) at an average of $50 a unit (or whatever the developers % of the gross might be) it may or may not be worth the effort of developing REs….each to their own to work out if it is potentially worth the effort, but apparently quite a number believe it to be so.

So to the original question, Nope, not pissed off but it still sits unused on my MAC because my eyes can't handle it.

[drez]

I realise it can be taken with a grain of salt, but 46355 likes on the Props Facebook page might give a loose marketing survey to the potential customer base. Let's be honest, not that many people are going to be looking up audio software pages to like unless they have some interest in it,….so lets say as a developer this represents the ENTIRE PH user base and you aim at say 10% market penetration (probably not unreasonable considering the eager wait on plugin ability) at an average of $50 a unit (or whatever the developers % of the gross might be) it may or may not be worth the effort of developing REs….each to their own to work out if it is potentially worth the effort, but apparently quite a number believe it to be so.

By you're math, if I'm reading it right,...

46355 * 10% = 4635 customers that buy your $50 RE

Total = $231,750

Is that what you calculated?

[bduffy]

I'm pissed off at Reason for still using only ReWire, when they should just make a VSTi version. No need to hook up all those fiddly mono channels and have Reason wreck havoc on your tempo, lose your .rns files, etc.

It'd still be a closed system, just wired directly into the host, like everything else on the planet! Why? Why not??

[myrna]

I'm pissed off at Reason for still using only ReWire, when they should just make a VSTi version. No need to hook up all those fiddly mono channels and have Reason wreck havoc on your tempo, lose your .rns files, etc.

It'd still be a closed system, just wired directly into the host, like everything else on the planet! Why? Why not??

Because they CANNOT do that. VST support in Reason is not possible. The fact they introduced REs means they wanted vst support, but Reason cannot manage vsts and crashes as a host. They say they introduced REs because of the GUI and the routings, but for me this is not true. They did it because there is no way to make a host out of Reason.

IMO they had to do like this: leave reason as it was in version 4 and not to merge it with record (bad choice). Record had to be Propellerhead's DAW: vst support and reason devices to be purchased as separated "REs" for Record or vst plugins. It had been a success, but alas... we know how things turned out

Year after year Reason has become more and more complex, but neither a real DAW nor something like Reaktor, Orion, FL etc. What a pity

[chk071]

To be honest i believe PH is fully aware that Reason's sequencer capabilities are inferior to other hosts' and that's the main reason why they didn't implement VST support. They would have easily build themselves up a strong competition to their own product by doing so. Better to keep it closed and build up another app market for Reason only instead.

[jacqueslacouth]

I realise it can be taken with a grain of salt, but 46355 likes on the Props Facebook page might give a loose marketing survey to the potential customer base. Let's be honest, not that many people are going to be looking up audio software pages to like unless they have some interest in it,….so lets say as a developer this represents the ENTIRE PH user base and you aim at say 10% market penetration (probably not unreasonable considering the eager wait on plugin ability) at an average of $50 a unit (or whatever the developers % of the gross might be) it may or may not be worth the effort of developing REs….each to their own to work out if it is potentially worth the effort, but apparently quite a number believe it to be so.

By you're math, if I'm reading it right,...

46355 * 10% = 4635 customers that buy your $50 RE

Total = $231,750

Is that what you calculated?

Exactly, and for me, that would be a pretty healthy pay cheque, but I'm just a teacher and wouldn't have a clue how many man hours it would take to create one of these devices. (but for me that is worth 2 years full time, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week)

[bduffy]

Just to be clear: what I'm proposing is that Reason stay EXACTLY the same, just instead of ReWire, it loads up as a VST instrument. You still can't use VST effects inside it, or vice-versa (although that'd be nice!). Just instead of ReWire, you can activate channels (stereo, if you wish) inside your host. Easy.

[drez]

Exactly, and for me, that would be a pretty healthy pay cheque, but I'm just a teacher and wouldn't have a clue how many man hours it would take to create one of these devices. (but for me that is worth 2 years full time, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week)

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I'd agree, it seems like a TRE (target rich environment) so the Early Adopter Dev, but like you, I don't really know how much it costs to build it in the first place.

[myrna]

Just to be clear: what I'm proposing is that Reason stay EXACTLY the same, just instead of ReWire, it loads up as a VST instrument. You still can't use VST effects inside it, or vice-versa (although that'd be nice!). Just instead of ReWire, you can activate channels (stereo, if you wish) inside your host. Easy.

I guess because of PDC problems...
But somebody say it is because they have a secret agreement with steinberg (something like: "ok, you worked for us in 1998, you own rewire copyright but cannot use vst, which is ours"). Conspiracy PH fanboys

[bduffy]

Just to be clear: what I'm proposing is that Reason stay EXACTLY the same, just instead of ReWire, it loads up as a VST instrument. You still can't use VST effects inside it, or vice-versa (although that'd be nice!). Just instead of ReWire, you can activate channels (stereo, if you wish) inside your host. Easy.

I guess because of PDC problems...
But somebody say it is because they have a secret agreement with steinberg (something like: "ok, you worked for us in 1998, you own rewire copyright but cannot use vst, which is ours"). Conspiracy PH fanboys

Oh, could be the Magic Bullet!

[kae]

I'm pissed off at Reason for still using only ReWire, when they should just make a VSTi version. No need to hook up all those fiddly mono channels and have Reason wreck havoc on your tempo, lose your .rns files, etc.

It'd still be a closed system, just wired directly into the host, like everything else on the planet! Why? Why not??

Because they CANNOT do that. VST support in Reason is not possible. The fact they introduced REs means they wanted vst support, but Reason cannot manage vsts and crashes as a host. They say they introduced REs because of the GUI and the routings, but for me this is not true. They did it because there is no way to make a host out of Reason.

IMO they had to do like this: leave reason as it was in version 4 and not to merge it with record (bad choice). Record had to be Propellerhead's DAW: vst support and reason devices to be purchased as separated "REs" for Record or vst plugins. It had been a success, but alas... we know how things turned out

Year after year Reason has become more and more complex, but neither a real DAW nor something like Reaktor, Orion, FL etc. What a pity

I rather think it is a mix between keeping control themselves and business (same thing really). It wouldn't be hard for them to include a vst-combinator device, but that wouldn't earn them any money. And we have to admit that moving all device specific code over to the host so that all RE's are cross platform and future proof is a rather clever concept. I think Reason has a much larger userbase than the above mentioned ~46000 and after reading the PH forum it seems Reason users are rather triggerhappy with their credit card too.

[myrna]

I'm pissed off at Reason for still using only ReWire, when they should just make a VSTi version. No need to hook up all those fiddly mono channels and have Reason wreck havoc on your tempo, lose your .rns files, etc.

It'd still be a closed system, just wired directly into the host, like everything else on the planet! Why? Why not??

Because they CANNOT do that. VST support in Reason is not possible. The fact they introduced REs means they wanted vst support, but Reason cannot manage vsts and crashes as a host. They say they introduced REs because of the GUI and the routings, but for me this is not true. They did it because there is no way to make a host out of Reason.

IMO they had to do like this: leave reason as it was in version 4 and not to merge it with record (bad choice). Record had to be Propellerhead's DAW: vst support and reason devices to be purchased as separated "REs" for Record or vst plugins. It had been a success, but alas... we know how things turned out

Year after year Reason has become more and more complex, but neither a real DAW nor something like Reaktor, Orion, FL etc. What a pity

I rather think it is a mix between keeping control themselves and business (same thing really). It wouldn't be hard for them to include a vst-combinator device, but that wouldn't earn them any money. And we have to admit that moving all device specific code over to the host so that all RE's are cross platform and future proof is a rather clever concept. I think Reason has a much larger userbase than the above mentioned ~46000 and after reading the PH forum it seems Reason users are rather triggerhappy with their credit card too.

I don't want to believe they can be so eager and unrespectable to their customers, if this is the case. For me it is just a question of "weakness of the code": put vst into reason and reason crashes at once. Make a VST plugin out of Reason (like FL, reaktor etc.) and reason has delay problems. Just this. OF COURSE they cannot admit it.