Are you pissed off at Reason?

[highkoo]

Meh, another long angry RE thread....

FWIW zero, I agree with the sentiment in your OP.
Or, I suspect that we all will once the reality is apparent.

I have been suspicious since REs were announced. I have tried with limited success to stay out of the threads.
Like I have said, imo this was just a desperate hail mary attempt to save Reason/Props. It has nothing, at all, to do with customers. It was a massive and risky business decision.
And I suspect that the better it does, the worse it is for the VST format, and VST devs.

It was a desperate selfish last ditch effort to keep Reason viable.
That alone they cant be blamed for, but imo it has turned to a bit of a bait and switch on both customers and devs and Props are standing strong, cuz golly, this might actually work.

One of the recent threads here posted how many employees Props has. It blew my mind....
They just are not an 'on the grind' company. It is obvious in their history and in their present course.

This entire debacle is mostly interesting to watch, since I dont care about Reason, and I am interested in group thought and dissonance...
But, like mentioned, seeing VST devs mention time spent on REs, and seeing RE users demanding ports is a bit close to home.

[saturdaysaint]

I have been suspicious since REs were announced. I have tried with limited success to stay out of the threads.
Like I have said, imo this was just a desperate hail mary attempt to save Reason/Props. It has nothing, at all, to do with customers. It was a massive and risky business decision.

Any evidence that Propellerhead are in desperate financial straits? Typically, tech companies in bad financial shape don't show it by delivering well executed product updates on their normal annual schedule plus a slate of new products (their own REs plus Figure). That would be pretty atypical for a struggling company, I'd dare say. Or are you just guessing?

[myrna]

I have been suspicious since REs were announced. I have tried with limited success to stay out of the threads.
Like I have said, imo this was just a desperate hail mary attempt to save Reason/Props. It has nothing, at all, to do with customers. It was a massive and risky business decision.

Any evidence that Propellerhead are in desperate financial straits? Typically, tech companies in bad financial shape don't show it by delivering well executed product updates on their normal annual schedule plus a slate of new products (their own REs plus Figure). That would be pretty atypical for a struggling company, I'd dare say. Or are you just guessing?

Well, actually "Record" was a failure, I don't know one single person who bought it. The only ones who purchased it were Reason users (myself included) through the "record for reason users" option. That's why they made the (awful) merge and introduced the bloody dongle for reason, too. But we were angry about this: 99€ for a useless update was unfair. So they made the "pay what you like", otherwise just a few of us would have updated to 6 for that price.

[liquidsound]

Add the fact that it must be intentional that opening a file in 6.5 completely makes it no longer compatible with older version (from what I read here on KVR, I did not try yet due to my set up )
Don't tell me they didn't have time to find out, and if they did is there any timely published warning anywhere?

The "pay what you want" was not a favor, it was a very calculated move to get people to 6.5 for then introducing RE and make up the upgrade loss with RE sales, hopefully....

The whole thing is just.....

[highkoo]

I have been suspicious since REs were announced. I have tried with limited success to stay out of the threads.
Like I have said, imo this was just a desperate hail mary attempt to save Reason/Props. It has nothing, at all, to do with customers. It was a massive and risky business decision.

Any evidence that Propellerhead are in desperate financial straits? Typically, tech companies in bad financial shape don't show it by delivering well executed product updates on their normal annual schedule plus a slate of new products (their own REs plus Figure). That would be pretty atypical for a struggling company, I'd dare say. Or are you just guessing?

They may or may not be in financial trouble.
But they were/are in conceptual trouble in the marketplace.
Reason has been becoming obsolete from many perspectives, and especially for people new to music making and the DAW. It used to be the hot shit. And you dont wait for the company to go bankrupt before taking some action. So they finally tried to compromise with the users #1 request...
Anyway Im guessing they probably have some cash to have been keeping all those employees on.

I guess I will give em 'well executed' and 'normal schedule' for s+g?
But, with all those employees, and in retrospect, those updates are not overly impressive, imo. (Though Im no expert on what its added lately.)
And the three hundred pages of RE threads on KvR alone is not all roses. Lots of questioning users and quiet devs....

Look at their history;
A crazy move like REs is is not in their nature. Not only is it very close to something they said they would never do, it also comes after the Record half-fail.

[headquest]

I realise it can be taken with a grain of salt, but 46355 likes on the Props Facebook page might give a loose marketing survey to the potential customer base. Let's be honest, not that many people are going to be looking up audio software pages to like unless they have some interest in it,….so lets say as a developer this represents the ENTIRE PH user base and you aim at say 10% market penetration (probably not unreasonable considering the eager wait on plugin ability) at an average of $50 a unit (or whatever the developers % of the gross might be) it may or may not be worth the effort of developing REs….each to their own to work out if it is potentially worth the effort, but apparently quite a number believe it to be so.

Considering the visibility of the Reason brand, I'm actually surprised that they only have 46,355 likes on their Facebook page to be honest. I mean their marketing is very concerted and they have a powerful image.

I don't know if the figure means much. For the sake of comparisson, Ableton have 207,695 likes on their Facebook page. I don't believe that means they have sold nearly five times as many copies though. It really surprises me that - having not released a new version for three years or done nearly so much marketing as Propellerhead - that they have nearly five times as many followers

Then again Bitwig have 7,487 followers and haven't sold anything at all

Also I think your idea that an individual Re would reach 10% of the Reason community is probably way off. Given the number of Re products already on sale, I think that within six months even a 1% penetration would be ambitious (don't forget there will be lots of users who don't actually buy any of them).

I'm one of Propellerhead's 46,355 followers .... I'm keen to continue following their news and developments but I'm not about to buy any of the REs. For the time being, Reason 5 (plus Record and ReCycle) more than satisfy my itch for their products line.

[myrna]

Sorry for "twisting the knife" but years ago (when reason was "the bomb") there were tons of websites and fansites, new free refills every day, blogs, some chats and reasonsongs' webradiostations, too. Nowadays they are almost all closed or inactive (see reasonstation, combinator hq etc.). Ok, i am whiner

[Crackbaby]

"likes" on facebook says nothing at all since "like us on facebook and join the lottery!" phenomena.

[headquest]

Sorry for "twisting the knife" but years ago (when reason was "the bomb") there were tons of websites and fansites, new free refills every day, blogs, some chats and reasonsongs' webradiostations, too. Nowadays they are almost all closed or inactive (see reasonstation, combinator hq etc.). Ok, i am whiner

I remember those days well - I had a whole "bookmark" folder full of the links. Good times! And very vibrant. And back then there was also the Reason Song Archive on the Props own site, which was brimming with great material that users were sharing and collaborating on. Those days are long gone though - the sense of community then has been replaced by the sense of commerce now. Just the way of the world I guess but you are right - those were good times to be around!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[drez]

Not reading this thread but the title, and now i AM pissed off at reason cause i no longer have ANY RE's installed that i have not bought.. and removed all demo ones using the authorizer, yet every launch i still get the "some licenses only available online" BS.. the amount of times i close and open reason, this is annoying me. Furthermore the default option is "log in" , not, "proceed without" so i just can't quickly press enter to continue loading.

Lastly, i am also pissed off that when i have logged in, my firewall asks for permission to the server precisely once every minute. So reason calls home every single minute. That's shitty. No excuse for that.

I have you Plugged in your ignition key, gone to the site, gone to your account and clicked on manage licenses? I should tell you. That your ignition key isn't sync'd up, sync it up, and then you should be good to go.

At least that's what the situation was for me. I just did this earlier today.

[VitaminD]

[fceramic]

I think we just have to be a bit more patient. RE has been out for a month and it's a huge change for Reason. The developers have expressed quite a bit of frustration regarding the limitations of the SDK, especially regarding the GUI assets. So hopefully Props are working their asses off to fix these issues and make REs a better experience for both users and developers.
On the other hand Propellerhead's customer service is pretty bad which do piss me off!

[justin3am]

Not reading this thread but the title, and now i AM pissed off at reason cause i no longer have ANY RE's installed that i have not bought.. and removed all demo ones using the authorizer, yet every launch i still get the "some licenses only available online" BS.. the amount of times i close and open reason, this is annoying me. Furthermore the default option is "log in" , not, "proceed without" so i just can't quickly press enter to continue loading.

Lastly, i am also pissed off that when i have logged in, my firewall asks for permission to the server precisely once every minute. So reason calls home every single minute. That's shitty. No excuse for that.

As far as I can tell, you will have to log-in each time until any demos active in your account expire. The only RE I've demoed but haven't purchased expired on the 17th and now I don't get the log-in prompt anymore. Like you, I had removed the RE from the authorizer app but I continued to get the prompt every time I launched Reason. Pretty annoying. I hope this isn't intended behavior.

[memyselfandus]

"I have a default Kong combinator with multi-outs (mostly for fast sidechaining) and pad-specific arpeggiators."

Care to share the combinator?

Heh, will do later.

Thanks!