Are you pissed off at Reason?

[myrna]

I have no choice? I often use Reason rewired to Live so yes I do have quite a few options. In Live I also prefer using the integrated instruments and effects from such developers as AAS and Softube. It's interesting that Ableton was never criticized for doing exactly the same thing years ago.
I also have Logic and Studio One, but for some insane reason (judging from this thread) I always come back to mainly using Reason cause I like the SSL mixer, drRex, pattern lanes, Redrum, Malstrøm, live sampling, the Echo, the modularity and the lack of floating windows. It's still an inspiring program after all these years and I never experience bugs or crashes. So to me that's a pretty good software.

you have no choice, playing reason standalone (as in PH and fanboys claiming: "reason is all you need"): all the software you use and quote proves that.

[sellyoursoul]

RE pros:

* offers some variety to reason users
* more flexible connectivity, but only in reason

So am I pissed at Reason? No. That's silly. I'm disappointed with the company developing Reason.

So you NOW admit reason needed "some variety". Strange that you ALL wanted me to be banned because of this request of mine...

You obviously have me mistaken for someone else. I began using Reason a couple of years ago, and at that time, I said that Reason needed VST support. I stated that there is no opportunity for variety in Reason. I suggested running vst plugins firewalled in the same way that Reaper does, so that if a plugin crashes, the host doesn't go down with it. I also suggested that Props could alternately set some sort of requirements (a standard) for plugins that will run in Reason. When I suggested those things, I did not mean a whole new plugin format. For one, a new plugin format is starting from ground zero. And then look at the result of the new plugin format: little variety, single marketplace, users can't use our favorite plugins in Reason, etc. It's a huge waste.

As for you getting banned. I know nothing of it, and I had nothing to do with it. I remember seeing you around the Props forum here and there, but I don't remember us ever having any bad words. I see very little reason for anyone ever being banned from any forum, and at the Props forum, banning seems to stem from the regulars whining about someone else having an opposing opinion to hivemind.

[headquest]

I also have to say that I strongly prefer REs over any other plugin format because of the rack integration, easy installation/purchase and modular connectivity.

For me what ultimately matters is getting the best sound. And being a pianist, the option for me is between Radical Piano in the Re format or .... well, a huge number of far superior options in the VST format.

In our enthusiasm for technology we can get sidetracked into details about an installation process or what-not. But in the end I just want a decent piano sound, and this is the real focus....

I had fun playing around with the synths and samplers, but when it comes down to it, I don't make electronic dance music or electronic pop, and the Reason tools are geared for that. This is why Record failed with musicians who fall outside of electronic genres, and I think that Props still doesn't get that.

I spoke at length about Radical Piano to the VP of Marketing at PH, Tim Self, and he naturally enthused about it - but all about the technology....

I asked him about pianists who had tried it and he struggled for an answer... he obviously wanted my view (having heard my music) but I had missed out on PWWY and he was keen to get me back on board with that and resolve some differences. Radical Pianos was an obvious carrot for him to wave...

Anyway, when the Radical Piano demos were released my heart sank. What a terrible sound (speaking as a professional classical/jazz pianist). I think all the energy went into the tech side, and not nearly enough into the musical side.

What this proved for me, finally, is that PH don't *get* musicians outside of their core genre/market. I'm certain you are right about rock, but even more so classical, jazz, film composers, etc. This is why Reason will always be a niche product, and why Re will only ever have a limited market. I suspect that some KVR readers are in the exact same boat, and most typical Computer Music readers for example. And for developers who make plugins aimed at the electronic market (all of those who have so far shown their hand...) Re may be a good way to go.

The tech that we have argued about for 11 pages so far, and loads in other threads, isn't the BIG PICTURE. What matters is really what musicians want, and outside electronic musicians I think you are right that PH, for all the best will (and Tim was a very friendly and helpful guy) simply don't actually understand what musicians want.

[myrna]

@ sellyoursoul
what they did not tell you is that Reason cannot manage vst because it becomes unstable and crashes at once. So they throw xxxx on vst, claiming reason is rock solid while vsts crash. For me it is simply the opposite: reason is "rock solid" because it is an hyperclosed system, as soon as it opens to extra plugins it crashes. Just wonder why reason is still not rewire master, despite the fact Propellerhead invented rewire

Of course, for marketing reasons, they pretend to be "indipendent from vst dictatorship" and such bullshit. I can understand that, but I prefer honest humbleness.

[memyselfandus]

Can anyone confirm that we will Not be seeing a Ezdrummer, Zebra, Sylenth1, Bfd2 RE? Because of the way the RE's are written? I am not really interested in the effects as much as having a full Ezdrummer RE with Midi Drag and Drop.

I have seen conversations on the forums where devs have said some things are not possible but not one confirmation from propllerhead. It would be nice to know.

The only way I will buy into Reason more.. is if they will be adding RE's like this. If someone from propellerhead said "yes, a full ezdrummer RE is in the works" or something.. I would be sold. But I am thinking that we will not be seeing anything like it because of the no PDC thing.. I can't imagine being able to run a big multi sampled drum plugin as a RE in reason.. although that is what I thought we would see when it was announced and what sparked my huge interest at that point.

IMHO the main thing (for me) missing from reason is having realistic, non machine gun type drum samples for rock-metal type stuff. The included drums and the drum add-on's you can buy all have the machine gun/fake effect when you hit one kit piece multiple times.. fast.. They work amazing for all sorts of other stuff but..


And what about guitar type RE's? Cab simulation support and all of that? You can't even load your own cab simulations in the line 6 amp.. everything is so closed..I wonder if they will ever offer something like Amplitube? all that guitar players have at the moment is the line 6 stuff which is severely limited at the moment. and has been since record came out.

[sellyoursoul]

Is this thread still going? REs and 6.5 works like a dream on my system. No problems with licenses, crashes or forced login. Runs really well and have not experienced a single bug with any of the REs (except a GUI glitch on Re-Tron). It's all looking good on the Props user forum too, rarely any issue-related threads.
I also have to say that I strongly prefer REs over any other plugin format because of the rack integration, easy installation/purchase and modular connectivity.
This thread has become a parody of a vst vs Reason where lots of people who don't know sh*t about the program talks about how every Reason user is a fanboy and how it's completely inferior. It's just a damn audio software, some people like it some do not.

How is this post wrong? Let me count the ways:

* There have been plenty of issues with installing Reason 6.5 and getting RE plugins working.
* I know plenty about the program. I use it. I have installed the upgrade. I have installed RE plugins.
* The Props forum overunneth with fanboyism.
* If it weren't for the vst plugin requests, I seriously doubt that RE plugins would exist. And every time that vst plugins was brought up on the Props forum, the person making the request/suggestions was dogpiled with "Reason is all that you need", and "We don't want plugins", and "If you don't like it, use something else". That hivemind fanboyism over there has gotten really old, and it doesn't hold water under scrutiny.
* You're bringing that fanboysim over here to the KVR forum, and I would suggest keeping it within the confines of the Reason forum.

Do you understand why there have been so many arguments at the Reason forum over these types of issues? It isn't because someone makes Reason feature suggestions. It is because the Props forum regulars somehow perceive those suggestions as a threat to their way of doing things in Reason. Plugins is a fine example of this. Had there not been any suggestions of different ways for integrating vst plugins, there would be no plugins in Reason. Yet all of those former dissenters are lapping up RE plugins and praising Props for introducing RE plugins. Where is the logic in this fanboyism?

[myrna]

Can anyone confirm that we will Not be seeing a Ezdrummer, Zebra, Sylenth1, Bfd2 RE? Because of the way the RE's are written?

When they first introduced "REs" the same people which the day before called vst "useless shit, owning reason" (see people like "Danoc" etc.), changed point of view ("the power and magic of fanboysm" LOL) asking for omnisphere, alchemy and such vsts to be ported on reason

For what you ask: it will never happen: REs are just quite lite and simple effets/synths. Nothing to do with 2012 vsti/vst

[memyselfandus]

I dream of a sylenth1 or ezdrummer RE.....

[myrna]

... when they asked me in PH "why do you sell reason?" I remember I anwered this

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkae9_ ... ruth_music

[memyselfandus]

I just wish they would come out and say "hey.. it is not even possible to do a Zebra or bfd2 or ezdrummer RE at the moment for X reason". instead of insinuating through marketing and silence that it may happen. or just come out and say "YES!! Reason customers will be seeing this in the future. maybe version 7"

I suppose we will know real soon. If something like zebra does not happen then we know. I mention Zebra because I saw a conversation on one of the forums where someone quoted URS talking about how it may not be possible. which I can only assume.. means a no go for all the other stuff also.. which to ME is like.. wtf is the point of RE and the marketing they are doing of making it sound like they have vsts in reason now in RE format.. if you cant use all the bad ass plugins!?
which is great.. if they would just come out and tell us.. then people like me can make informed decisions instead of waiting for nothing. and in the meantime.. buying vsts in re format that I may never use again because I switch.

The only Reason I get frustrated is because reason is awesome in so many other areas for me.. its so close... It seems like they have corporate mentalities making all the core decisions when the musicians who are close to the community should be making most of them. if so.. these corporate decision makers should be answering the big questions on the forums. and not people who work for them who have no information and cant say anything.

Edit. wait a sec though. RP Predator is coming soon.. so can anyone confirm some other stuff like it? that will be coming for sure? I would think if they can do a RE for Predator.. they could do a Zebra? and then a Ezdrummer??

Most of what I say is speculation at the moment of course.

The wait is pure Madness!!

[sellyoursoul]

Edit. wait a sec though. RP Predator is coming soon.. so can anyone confirm some other stuff like it? that will be coming for sure? I would think if they can do a RE for Predator.. they could do a Zebra? and then a Ezdrummer??

The wait is pure Madness!!

There are no MIDI utilities in Reason. How would you remap Ezdrummer to a controller? Look at Kong, for example. You have to do any remapping at the controller. It seems that there is no internal MIDI in the rack at all.

[myrna]

I just wish they would come out and say "hey.. it is not even possible to do a Zebra or bfd2 or ezdrummer RE at the moment for X reason". instead of insinuating through marketing and silence that it may happen. or just come out and say "YES!! Reason customers will be seeing this in the future. maybe version 7"

I suppose we will know real soon. If something like zebra does not happen then we know. I mention Zebra because I saw a conversation on one of the forums where someone quoted URS talking about how it may not be possible. which I can only assume.. means a no go for all the other stuff also.. which to ME is like.. wtf is the point of RE and the marketing they are doing of making it sound like they have vsts in reason now in RE format.. if you cant use all the bad ass plugins!?
which is great.. if they would just come out and tell us.. then people like me can make informed decisions instead of waiting for nothing. and in the meantime.. buying vsts in re format that I may never use again because I switch.

The only Reason I get frustrated is because reason is awesome in so many other areas for me.. its so close... It seems like they have corporate mentalities making all the core decisions when the musicians who are close to the community should be making most of them. if so.. these corporate decision makers should be answering the big questions on the forums. and not people who work for them who have no information and cant say anything.

Edit. wait a sec though. RP Predator is coming soon.. so can anyone confirm some other stuff like it? that will be coming for sure? I would think if they can do a RE for Predator.. they could do a Zebra? and then a Ezdrummer??

The wait is pure Madness!!

sorry, but this is not in PH policy... that's why I gave up and sold reason after 10 years of "patience"... They prefer to (pretend to) be a "cool company for cool young guys" and such "apple's marketing strategy" crap (fanboysm included), rather than listening to old time users. Regarding Predator: it is very lite, compared to monsters like ezdrummer, stylus rmx, alchemy, absynth, sampletank, diva, omnisphere, nexus etc.

[memyselfandus]

Edit. wait a sec though. RP Predator is coming soon.. so can anyone confirm some other stuff like it? that will be coming for sure? I would think if they can do a RE for Predator.. they could do a Zebra? and then a Ezdrummer??

The wait is pure Madness!!

There are no MIDI utilities in Reason. How would you remap Ezdrummer to a controller? Look at Kong, for example. You have to do any remapping at the controller. It seems that there is no internal MIDI in the rack at all.

this may explain why they can't do a sequencer RE then.. which is something I would buy in a second.

[liquidsound]

Let me add this to the soup:
Reason users, the ones saying in every forum, is perfect "As Is" before Thor, Audio and RE (VST), and now still, perfect "As Is" (go figure) are not, by any means, a valuable source of opinion or voice in any forum due to their own inability of discernment in understanding "As Is" from version 1.0 through version 6.5 and for the lack of integrity in judging us, the ones asking for all those things added to the "As Is", for being the bashers and attackers etc. etc.

We are the ones making your "AS IS" what it is now your freacking "ALL WE NEED" piece of software which is trying to keep up with the times with unparalleled marketing diffamation.

[headquest]

uHe has already said that he can't do Zebra or ACE because of limitations in the PH Re SDK, he wrote about it on his own forum when the request was made.