Confused about hardware mixers and Ableton Live

[OK.Kitari]

Hey Guys,
So im looking to move away from mixing with my mouse and move towards a hardware mixer.
However, im becomming more and more confused about how mixers work with software.

So initially i did some research and found that the behringer BCF2000 and novation SL MK 2 (not to mention the famous APC40) were good places to start. You can assign the faders and knobs to whatever you like and be on your way.

But i dug a little deeper...

I began to discover similarly priced mixers that were no longer exclusively midi based but have audio inputs, EQs, Effects, and typically more channel strips to work with.
examples:
Behringer XENYX X1832 http://www.behringer.com/CN/Products/X1832USB.aspx
Alesis MultiMix 16 http://www.alesis.com/multimix16firewire
and likely millions more...

so both of these mixers have USB capabilities...or Firewire...and im really confused about what this actually means...
does this simply mean they're audio interfaces that send the audio signal to your computer THROUGH USB or that they can be used to control your DAW?

what im looking to do is use the mixer to control the mixer and effects within Ableton live...can the latter 2 mixers do that?
and if they cant...how do you set up one of those mixers to work with audio in Ableton at all?

[ghettosynth]

Hey Guys,
So im looking to move away from mixing with my mouse and move towards a hardware mixer.
However, im becomming more and more confused about how mixers work with software.

So initially i did some research and found that the behringer BCF2000 and novation SL MK 2 (not to mention the famous APC40) were good places to start. You can assign the faders and knobs to whatever you like and be on your way.

They are not "mixers", they are controllers.

But i dug a little deeper...

I began to discover similarly priced mixers that were no longer exclusively midi based but have audio inputs, EQs, Effects, and typically more channel strips to work with.
examples:
Behringer XENYX X1832 http://www.behringer.com/CN/Products/X1832USB.aspx
Alesis MultiMix 16 http://www.alesis.com/multimix16firewire
and likely millions more...

so both of these mixers have USB capabilities...or Firewire...and im really confused about what this actually means...

They are mixers, but not controllers. The firewire/usb interfaces are for transporting audio to/from live.

does this simply mean they're audio interfaces that send the audio signal to your computer THROUGH USB

yes.

or that they can be used to control your DAW?

no

what im looking to do is use the mixer to control the mixer and effects within Ableton live...can the latter 2 mixers do that?

No

and if they cant...how do you set up one of those mixers to work with audio in Ableton at all?

You don't want a mixer, you want a controller. If you get a controller with motorized faders, there's less need for having separate controls for each function because the function can be switched, and the faders jump to their position.

People use mixers to mix OUTSIDE of the box.

[OK.Kitari]

interesting. and thanks for the reply.

okay so if i wanted to move OUTSIDE the box...would that completely bypass the ableton mixer and just output audio directly into the hardware mixer?

[ghettosynth]

interesting. and thanks for the reply.

okay so if i wanted to move OUTSIDE the box...would that completely bypass the ableton mixer and just output audio directly into the hardware mixer?

Yes, if the mixer supports X output channels where X is the number that you want to mix and routes those channels to the individual mix channels. I'm not familiar with recent models, but, when I was looking at going this route, most did not. They typically had input channels matching the inputs on the mixer and either two or four output channels. The reason is that most people who want to use a mixer with a daw want to use it to capture a live performance. The mixer gives you a live mix, along with effects, direct monitoring, etc., and the input channels give you a dry feed to be recorded and later mixed down.

[OK.Kitari]

hmm alright, thanks a lot for the info!

[ghettosynth]

hmm alright, thanks a lot for the info!

I hope that I'm being clear here. You have to be able to route enough channels out to the mixer somehow. If you have an existing interface with say 16 channels, then you can use that along with any analog mixer. If your interface does not support that many output channels, and you want the mixer to provide those channels, then you need to make sure that it can do so.

The Behringer mixer, for example, cannot. It's usb interface is limited to stero in and out and does not offer free routing of the output (see page 16).

http://www.behringer.com/EN/downloads/p ... J_M_EN.pdf

Also, the multimix offers full channels from the mixer to the computer, but again, only a stereo channel in the other direction. So it will not do what you're looking for either.

[Uncle E]

btw, there's a lot to be gained by mixing controllers and a hardware mixer. The Advent is brilliant at this:

[UltimateOutsider]

So initially i did some research and found that the behringer BCF2000 and novation SL MK 2 (not to mention the famous APC40) were good places to start. You can assign the faders and knobs to whatever you like and be on your way.

When I went from analog to digital, I stopped using my Mackie CR-1604 analog mixer and got a multi-port FireWire audio interface instead. I had to streamline things a bit, going from 16 analog ins to only 8 on the MOTU interface, but with a patch bay I got a good solution. When I started to miss the feel of the physical faders I got the Behringer unit you mentioned. It's actually quite nice.

But then I got a keyboard controller that had just as many knobs and faders as the BCF2000 (even though my controller's faders aren't motorized), so the Behringer's now on a shelf in the basement, next to the Mackie.

If you already have a good multi-port audio interface, a good keyboard controller might be all you need.