I can't hear any sub-bass - will IK Multimedia ARC System be right for me?

[dubfonik]

I have just moved into a new place and the way I had to set up my room has left my monitors in a position where I have almost lost all of the sub-bass end of the spectrum. I make sub-bass heavy music (dubstep) and now that I have trouble hearing 80Hz and below, it make it very uninspiring to make music.

I have ADAM A7X monitors, I was thinking about buying a sub so that there is something specific driving the frequencies that I need to hear.. though on doing some research I may find it will do more harm than good for my issue (and be more expensive).

So in my situation, would the ARC System be able to fix the issue I have? How would it be able to "bring back" the bass that has been lost due to cancellation?

Thanks guys

[sqigls]

That IS sad, I have been in the same spot. Especially f**ked when you make bass music...

I notice just now that IK have released v2 of this package...
I wish I could answer that question, I hope a compassionate acoustician can throw in their 2 bob, though. I've never used the ARC System sorry, but I think the best is to throw the bed out the window, and focus on the important things... THE BASS!!

The best thing I've found is to move the subby (or a single speaker) around without stuff in the room (with somebody helping you by slowly moving the sub around at a fixed distance from you, listening for the most solid seat and speaker position)... but i'm guessing this is out of the question?... I think all you can do (apart from moving your speakers around to find solid phase) is to stuff the corners of your room with bass traps.

Where in Aust are you by the way?
Feel free to answer by PM, i will help you all i can. I know the pain of this situation, it really f**king sucks.

[Doug1978]

In theory, a sub-bass will help you to hear lower frequencies than your nearfields.
However, what you are hearing will be severely impaired if your new room is not suitable for mixing, so here are a couple of questions:

Are you able to position your speakers in a more suitable place?

Have you got acoustic treatment and bass traps set up?

What room modes have you identified?

I can heartily recommend this book in helping a lot with these matters:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Secrets- ... 752&sr=8-1

To answer your question directly, the ARC system is recommended by many musicians (though not the author of the above excellent book) - but it won't make much difference if your room is not ready for mixing or your speakers are set up wrongly.

[tehlord]

It's also worth noting that you want your sub bass to be accurate, not just loud.

[dubfonik]

well, in my last room it was quite fine - there is a definite range of bass missing in my new room - so I don't want to resort to getting a $1200 sub if I don't need one (though if it's guaranteed to fix my problem then I'm prepared to do so).

Unfortunately I can't find my bedroom any other way .. otherwise I would have it up the short end of the room, rather then on the long-side. I haven't got any acoustic treatment set up - I don't know too much in terms of that.. would I need to get someone in with more experience to tell me what stuff I would need to buy, and where to put it? and how much would it all cost?

and what do you mean by "room modes"?

[Doug1978]

To be honest dubfonik, SoundonSound have written some excellent articles about this and express it much more pithily than I can, eg:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep07/a ... s_0907.htm

For the sake of a week's delay though, I'd honestly recommend (again) ordering that book via Amazon (or another competitor site). Chapters 1-4 detail a great deal about these issues and the other chapters will help you with your mixing. The book is written by one of the main SoundonSound contributors.

[Kaine]

well, in my last room it was quite fine - there is a definite range of bass missing in my new room

I'd actually hazard a guess at your new room being more neutral than your last one! I've tested those in a treated room and I find them lacking for bass music without a sub and it's only really when you get up to the A8X's that you find that you can do without for really bass heavy music. If the lower end sounded better before (i.e. louder) that was probably down to your room modes and would have been more rumble than fully defined bottom end.

The flip side of this is if you do get a sub to reinforce it and fill in the missing bits then room treatment may become essential to get it sounding completely right.

Sorry, not likely a answer you want to hear, but I'm just going off past experience having stuck a load of DnB and Dubstep through pretty much the whole range.

[dubfonik]

hmm, good point.. I guess getting a Sub8 is back on the cards then! it will be quite tricky to treat my room, due to the corners being occupied by furniture. can I get someone to come and do an analysis of my room and tell me what is needed and where?

[memyselfandus]

...

[robogone]

I have trouble hearing 80Hz and below

I have ADAM A7X monitors

Looks like they don't handle that range too well once you're below 70Hz

I was thinking about buying a sub

It will probably solve the problem.

[lfm]

hmm, good point.. I guess getting a Sub8 is back on the cards then! it will be quite tricky to treat my room, due to the corners being occupied by furniture. can I get someone to come and do an analysis of my room and tell me what is needed and where?

How are you switches set on the A7X?

The low shelving from 300Hz and below(+/- 6dB)?
Adjustment of tweater level(+/-2dB)?
Adjustment of treble shelving(+/-6dB)?

There are really good options to adjust to your room here.
New room, new settings!!!!

Otherwise I'm all for Doug comments, take some time and learn all about what Mixing Secrets has to say. Really good book(I also got tip from excellent KVRians).

While waiting for book I would start with everything in 0dB adjustment on speakers. Then start raising low shelving a step at the time and see what happends - if bass is starting to appear.

Then do something with calibrating tweater to woofer, and then treble shelving if needed more clarity.

With those speaker you don't need sub.

[dubfonik]

With those speaker you don't need sub.

now I'm confused - are you saying with the A7X's I shouldn't need a sub? conflicting information hurts my head , haha.

...

I fail to see your point

[jam92189]

the reviews on the arc are all good from what I have seen and the update is made to help with the bass stuff. but in actuality I would say get your room treated and then get a sub. but keep in mind the more noise in a room the less accurate you will hear. just because a room sounds bumping with bass does not mean its a good thing.

[sqigls]

With your music at least, i would say a sub is essential.
Although your speakers can reach down low, the volume of those low frequencies will be quite low also.

But it sounds like your room needs some good treatment.

I would reccomend the book listed above also!!! Good stuff!!

[lfm]

With those speaker you don't need sub.

now I'm confused - are you saying with the A7X's I shouldn't need a sub? conflicting information hurts my head , haha.

Well, I try to explain.

The A7X goes pretty low at 42Hz, and there are no switches to to adjust low cut(some brands have that). It's only the 300Hz low shelving you've got.

A sub could just as well cause interference and phase cancelling stuff and you are in more trouble - solved nothing.

The A5X are meant to be used with sub, not the A7X.

What are positions of switches now on the A7X now?

How much did you experiment with switch settings as of now?

There is plenty to do with that before investing in new stuff.