Getting the ear trained...

[diijay]

Hi guys,

My goal is to be able to transform an audio song into midi.
Identifying each part of the music: vocal melodies,bass, piano,guitar,synth,pad,strings.... etc and transcribe it into midi.

I believe I know enough music theory to be able to do this and I was wondering if would be faster if I have a musician with me or not.
Lots of methods taught by music schools and musicians, where I live, will teach me a lots of music theory I already know of, so will take years to get me where I need to be today.

My goal is not to become a musician, I need a trained ear in order to become a better music producer.

I've been studying music theory for over 4 years and I love it!!!

My method:(pop music)

1) choose a song, find the key and scale(mode), if the music does not contain modulation, borrowed chords, adornments and is diatonic, only exist seven possible notes out of 12. Probability 7/12.
2) find out the bass line, following the method 1.
3) then put some notes on top of the bass notes to find out the harmonies.
Following the major/minor intervals.
4)Check if there is an inversion, then analyzes whether the chords are sus or dim or aug to fingure it out the harmonies

Is this good enough or do I need a musician with me?

Do you know any other books/methods that could help me achieve my goals faster?

I am able to tell if a note is higher than the other, on a melody line.

Thanks.

[MrMagneto]

What makes you think that a musician has a better ear than you do?
On the other hand, a guitarist is more likely to simulate or reconstruct a certain guitar line in the specific playing style.
Anyway, I think "Melodyne" is something that could be very helpful aswell. It can recognize melodies from complex material and export them as midi.

[diijay]

I know melodyne and I use it but I would like to able to do it by ear alone.

[Nanakai]

Hi guys,

My method:(pop music)

1) choose a song, find the key and scale(mode), if the music does not contain modulation, borrowed chords, adornments and is diatonic, only exist seven possible notes out of 12. Probability 7/12.
2) find out the bass line, following the method 1.
3) then put some notes on top of the bass notes to find out the harmonies.
Following the major/minor intervals.
4)Check if there is an inversion, then analyzes whether the chords are sus or dim or aug to fingure it out the harmonies

Thanks.

This is far more than most musicians I know can do. Practicing is just what you need to do.

[tapper mike]

I agree.

But it's not just enough to practice standard performance things. You also need to practice ear training methods and develop a regiment for it.

One thing I'd like to point out in regards to the guitar and other instruments is they are nuanced instruments of which the character of the tone can often mislead if you are practiced with only one instrument. As a prime example the guitar has five middle c's not one. the differences in tonality are considerable. this is why guitarists prefer to transcribe with tab software rather then standard midi, where each string has it's own midi channel.

Ear training isn't a once and done thing. Ear training is perpetual. If you go that route be fully prepared to train your ears for the rest of your life. It may get easier in time but it will always be work and If you aren't constantly doing it you'll lose it.

[schnapsglas]

My method:(pop music)

1) choose a song, find the key and scale(mode), if the music does not contain modulation, borrowed chords, adornments and is diatonic, only exist seven possible notes out of 12. Probability 7/12.
2) find out the bass line, following the method 1.
3) then put some notes on top of the bass notes to find out the harmonies.
Following the major/minor intervals.
4)Check if there is an inversion, then analyzes whether the chords are sus or dim or aug to fingure it out the harmonies

Is this good enough or do I need a musician with me?

Do you know any other books/methods that could help me achieve my goals faster?

I am able to tell if a note is higher than the other, on a melody line.

Thanks.

I'm not sure. Alright, modulation is one thing, but I would say borrowed chords are actually very, very common. Musicians (or at least my idea of how it works) don't really transcribe music that way. Well, not accurate transcription, but a mental one. Then they work from there.

I will be dead honest without any harm meant: if you have been studying music theory for 4 years, you should be good enough to not follow that method and still come up with something decent. I think, in general, people right away see the harmonic structure and then proceed to break it down. If you can play music and know enough theory it should not be too hard for a song from a mainstream genre.

[diijay]

Thanks guys for all replies..good to know that I might don't need a teacher, someone with me afterall to achieve this.

I will be dead honest without any harm meant: if you have been studying music theory for 4 years, you should be good enough to not follow that method and still come up with something decent. I think, in general, people right away see the harmonic structure and then proceed to break it down. If you can play music and know enough theory it should not be too hard for a song from a mainstream genre.

I agree with you, but I can't play musica, I am not a musician....my steps were dj-music producer-music theory student.

BTW, learning how to play piano/keyboard then guitar are my next steps.

[schnapsglas]

Thanks guys for all replies..good to know that I might don't need a teacher, someone with me afterall to achieve this.

I will be dead honest without any harm meant: if you have been studying music theory for 4 years, you should be good enough to not follow that method and still come up with something decent. I think, in general, people right away see the harmonic structure and then proceed to break it down. If you can play music and know enough theory it should not be too hard for a song from a mainstream genre.

I agree with you, but I can't play musica, I am not a musician....my steps were dj-music producer-music theory student.

BTW, learning how to play piano/keyboard then guitar are my next steps.

If you don't know how to play keyboard --

Do yourself a favour and get yourself a 39-key keyboard (well, if you already have one, skip this step.) You should really try to transcribe by playing. Bass is just part of the harmony, so if you can figure out the structure the rest is just figuring out the voicing. Just playing chord progressions on piano with inversions can help a lot. Don't worry about key other than C or Am, just transpose the keys and you should be fine.

[A.M. Gold]

You are talking about transcribing. It's not easy, and the majority of musicians probably can't do it, except on their MOST familiar instrument. Steve Vai is a good example of a guy who is mostly known as a good instrumentalist who is also an ace transcriber. That's actually how he got his start (he impressed Frank Zappa by transcribing some of Frank's more complex compositions).

If you can get really good at transcribing, it will most likely take a lot of work and practice.

[jancivil]

Is this good enough or do I need a musician with me?

how's it working so far? getting the ear together to the degree of a facility for transcription is a function of MUSICIANSHIP.

Do you know any other books/methods that could help me achieve my goals faster?

reading words is not going to train your ear. music theory information is not going to train your ear.

I can tell you how I got my ear together, I took things off records, singing the line and finding the notes on my instrument. the facility of finding things on the instrument owed to experience with the instrument; in addition to this I learned a whole lot of songs, out of published lead sheets or whatever. With this experience I got familiar with the meaning, the feel of intervals in the context of songs. Later in life I had solfege in classes, sight singing which firmed things up some more.

Skipping this whole musicianship thing is not going to save you time. "studying music theory for over 4 years!"
well out of the experience I had, I sure did not need four years to suss music theory. In conservatory, it's one or two years, and that's that, it's time to advance to form etc. So, I think the cart of reading information is not going to pull the horse of musical facility but so far. I had transcribed many things before I ever had theory.

I do not agree with this idea of trancribing ability being so exotic. It oughtn't be, it's a crucial part of being a musician on my planet.

[tapper mike]

I started doing ear training my first month on the guitar. Theory can conflict with ear training as when you practice ear training it's based on what you hear not what you think.

There is a delusion that all the answers can be found in fundamental theory and that everyone applies theory in the same manner. Someone with good relative or the very occasional perfect pitch doesn't require theory to ground them so they can figure out songs. Figuring out songs does not make one a theorist or a composer.

[Cyoon]

maybe this can be of any help?

http://www.moultonlabs.com/full/product01/

http://www.trainyourears.com/

cheers

[sammy24]

to the OP: you recently sent me a PM, on this topic. just letting you know that I replied. You don't seem to check your PM's very often .