Are you pissed off at Reason?

[Trakstar]

I upgraded from 6 to 6.5, found out I couldnt download the free RE's because my computers not hooked up to internet and there is a few bugs to watch out for such as opening projects from other versions in 6.5 then wont re open back in any previous version. And considering the PDC problem I havent bothered with it since. Ive licensed my ignition key but have yet to download and install the software and free REs. What a fiasco, Im going to have to buy a USB modem for £25 to just to download the Free RE's Ive got, so in a way I am pissed yes, but I still like reason and I am considering just keeping it a closed Host stopping at version 6. Im wondering if I could just keep my ignition key with version 6, and then there is the issues of whether any future versions of reason will feature any new processors or will I have to buy them all from now on. At the minute Im sat on the fence because I really wouldnt mind the trident EQ and FET dynamics for within reason so really dont know, I was going to sell and had a swap offer from someone but wasnt what I was after.

[headquest]

P.S. i've heard you cannot even resell REs, right? ...

right?...

http://www.propellerheads.se/support/ar ... extensions

Took me 30 seconds to google that btw.

I suspect what he is referring to is the fact that PH official line about this is actually illegal under EU law, as demonstrated in a recent test case at the European Court of Justice. Many developers are now changing their policy to fit with their legal obligations, but PH haven't apparently done so yet.

[chk071]

I suspect what he is referring to is the fact that PH official line about this is actually illegal under EU law, as demonstrated in a recent test case at the European Court of Justice. Many developers are now changing their policy to fit with their legal obligations, but PH haven't apparently done so yet.

Right, i read that in another thread... nevermind then.

[myrna]

P.S. i've heard you cannot even resell REs, right? ...

right?...

http://www.propellerheads.se/support/ar ... extensions

Took me 30 seconds to google that btw.

...30 seconds of hurting truth, then whiners or not whiners

[PB2000]

So, let's all chill, have a cup of tea and answer the big question - if RE's are not a success is this the end for Reason? And if not where does it go from here?!

I'm sure Re will be a success, so this is a moot question.

From Propellerhead's point of view, they now make a cut on every Re sold, with minimal ongoing effort. So it's a winner for them. From developers points of view, some Re products will no doubt succeed more than others.

From the users' point of view though, there are two questions concerning the mid-term:

1. The Re shop lends itself to impulse purchases, and I suspect what somebody earlier called "Re Syndrome" will be common. Uers may end up with a bunch of Re devices they paid for but don't use, and can't sell (either because of the NFR policy or because the market may not sustain second-hand sales). Looking back on their investment two years from now, it will be interesting to see the customer response.

2. Re v.1 doesn't provide a platform suited to many of the VST ports users are keen to see, for example high end instruments like Alchemy/etc. Reason 7 might introduce Re v.2 with more options for developers, but at that point all the Re v.1 products already look old (but can't be sold). How will users respond to this, and for how long will they keep paying out for new stuff?

After some initial success for PH, I suspect we may very possibly see a serious backlash from users, perhaps in a year or two. At that point, let's put the kettle on and pull up a chair for another cup of tea and a chat. It will certainly be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

HQ and DB,

I actually see it going this way:

The Props know that the SDK is limited for what developers can and want to do. That will change over time. Right now, updates are free to users that have purchased the Re. I expect that will be the case for the foreseeable future and as technology advances, Re's updates will be similar to how VST updates are offered. They will get the cross-grade / license transfer demand figured out.

We are already seeing daily epiphanies, seemingly, from some of the larger developers with breakthroughs on how to integrate certain aspects of Re coding. It will get easier for them as time goes by. Combine updated SDK's with knowledge from developers and the Re could simply blow away what is currently known in plug-in development. I see that happening. Developers see that as well. The early adopters such as Sonic Charge, U-He and G-Force and Audio Damage have all spoke of the advantages of developing in Re format. Some of them, such as Chris, from AD, have been very outspoken about the advantages.

I believe them, the developers, to know that future instruments and effects where resources can be focused on one platform, especially the Reason platform, will be able to support more features and depth. It's almost a shame that VST technology had such a head start and large distribution base because they know that their development will be much more enticing as a Re that can still be utilized in every other DAW via Rewire.

I see the plug-in world completely flipping around where we have current VST users wondering why Reason can only have XYZ plug-in and demanding to get it as a multi-platform VST as well and will get into / get back to the Reason environment as to be able to have those exclusive items.

I, strongly, believe that if all things were equal, most DAW users would prefer to work in Reason for a lot of the ease of use and graphical intuitiveness aspects. (HQ, I understand my experience with Reason is different from most on a laptop. I can understand your point about that if limited in options.)

I believe that's a large reason why there is so much backlash from VST owners. That said, once Re development really starts to take off with new, creative concepts, we'll see an influx of serious users that actually pay for product. The pirates will always go for the free download.

IMHO, Re implementation is the beginning of a technology that will provide some jaw dropping ear candy. Bear in mind, this is all being developed while Reason will still be developed as well. The end product in the not-too-distant future could be pretty cool.

JMHO, of course. I don't care about who does what better than whomever else. I want functional, ease of use and dependable.

[liquidsound]

conspiracy theory.

No conspiracy. No Theory

create something that is new that they don't have or couldn't have in VST world.

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

And somehow, selling their own development for money is frowned upon even though you only paid little to nothing for that upgrade.

This is just the beginning. Prepare your plastic for anything meaningful coming from them into Reason (Beside the Upgrade fees...)

If you THINK you'll use the device, you buy it. That is no different in VST world.

In the VST world I can sell if I need to move on and use it anywhere I see fitted etc.

I do believe I may be starting to see your point. Money.

Don't tell me about money when you are the one sucking for $0 and go tell THEM about money. Why?

The only attribute of Re's that even remotely makes sense to be angry about is the purchase of a non-transferable software product. I'm on board with that argument.

Thank you.

Yes, being a Reason user will cost more money for me than it did before but that is only logical as it offers a lot more than it did before

It shouldn't be so if future upgrades will include some meaningful module. After all, their mantra is that you don't need anything else beside Reason "As It Is" to make great music, which is fairly true unless you want to leave the island and go into the world.

And if I don't want it to be more, it doesn't have to because I DECIDE what I'm purchasing, not what they tell me what I have to pay for.

That's up to the RE syndrome and marketing hypnosis. That will be your problem not mine.

So I went from 6 to 6.5.1 for $0 AND they threw in Pulsar and the Saturation Knob for free!

Nice of you, and you still pointing fingers to the paying customers that are just having the right to ask for a better approach to the future of Reason policies.

BTW, the title should be "Are you pissed off Propellerhead?" Of Course.
Pissed at Reason? No way. I enjoyed since 2.5 and I still do.

[PB2000]

No conspiracy. No Theory

Then quit making statements that show the opposite like you've made throughout this thread. You've intimated on numerous occasions that this is all about money to them. They couldn't care less about the product they provide, right? Right.

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re. None. Zero. Nada.

This is just the beginning. Prepare your plastic for anything meaningful coming from them into Reason (Beside the Upgrade fees...)

You mean....a price for a product that was developed to sell? Please share with us how that's different in VST world. Or any other world, for that matter.

In the VST world I can sell if I need to move on and use it anywhere I see fitted etc.

I understand the desire to re-sell a Re. The desire to have a multi-platform device is of no consequence because a closed system device in Reason has much more potential. Any single platform design has that advantage over multi-platform limitations. Plus, any Re will work in any DAW via Re-wire. Keep your DAW of choice and Reason.

Don't tell me about money when you are the one sucking for $0 and go tell THEM about money. Why?

Incomprehensible. I don't know what your trying to say.

It shouldn't be so if future upgrades will include some meaningful module. After all, their mantra is that you don't need anything else beside Reason "As It Is" to make great music.

Why would you be ok with paying for devices you may not want or use but not ok with paying nothing or close to nothing with the choice of what you want to pay for? Anybody else care to explain that logic to me? What the hell does a "mantra" have to do with anything?

That's up to the RE syndrome and marketing hypnosis. That will be your problem not mine.

Yes, because the Props marketing has so much authority over your and my buying habits and decision making process. They must be out to get us. ''

Nice of you, and you still pointing fingers to the paying customers that are just having the right to ask for a better approach to the future of Reason policies.

Because your "better approach" seems to be something different than a free to low-cost upgrade and the choice of devices to pay for. What better approach? So far, what you have, somewhat suggested, is not better.

[damoog]

Makes me laugh to read peoples hatre towards propellerhead for kind of 'making them buy RE,s' and being 'sucked into their way of selling and promoting the software'...the props continue to gain respect from happy reason users such as myself and I don't thnk they are out to get me!....what they are guilty of is taking away many of my happy hours making music when I should have been watching eastenders with my wife ....you can't beat reason,you just can't folks

[myrna]

what makes me laugh is people saying: "hey, what are you expecting from PH? Charity? It's business, their aim is makng money" etc. They play the "let's be cynical" game. Then, as soon as one like myself "dares" to say something "against" (?) reason, users get worried about propellerhead, and react as if they should defend a little unprotected kid bullied by us "the evil ones" (aka "the very unpleasant whiners")

[myrna]

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re. None. Zero. Nada.

If they are quick as they are... let's say... uhm... korg vst was a 2002? 2003? ... uhm... Omnisphere REs.... 2023?

[liquidsound]

Then quit making statements that show the opposite like you've made throughout this thread. You've intimated on numerous occasions that this is all about money

Control, Greed and perhaps fear...
You haven't see their financial inside story. "Quit making statements"... And you are? Any authority in your statement? Take it easy and if are not pissed at Reason this may not be the best palce for you to exercise a lousy defense lawyer and police attitude...

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re.

I wish you a very long life then.

You mean....a price for a product that was developed to sell?

Look. You don't seems to see the new way that is "Probably" (we shall see in the v7 and up to be confirmed) this is going. Did you like your Thor? Did you like your Kong? Those are the things I'm talking about. It was part of reason growing, with paid upgrades and innovation, given to the user base AND "for resell if you wish so".
Now we shall see what upgrade means and brings to the table. Now thay can charge you for a Synth, fair to pay for, but with a twist: you keep it for life. That's different when paying upgrades full price (not $0!!!) with the option for sale and paying full price with NO option at all. None. >> Please share with us how that's different in VST world. Or any other world, for that matter. Fixed.

Don't tell me about money when you are the one sucking for $0 and go tell THEM about money. Why?

Incomprehensible. I don't know what your trying to say.

You said you are bright... It's OK, leave it alone. Time consuming.

It shouldn't be so if future upgrades will include some meaningful module. After all, their mantra is that you don't need anything else beside Reason "As It Is" to make great music.

Why would you be ok with paying for devices you may not want or use but not ok with paying nothing or close to nothing with the choice of what you want to pay for? Anybody else care to explain that logic to me? What the hell does a "mantra" have to do with anything?

Same as above

That's up to the RE syndrome and marketing hypnosis. That will be your problem not mine.

Yes, because the Props marketing has so much authority over your and my buying habits and decision making process. They must be out to get us. javascript:emoticon('')

They even got some developer to believe that it takes 20 minutes to convert a VST. Do your own investigations.

Because your "better approach" seems to be something different than a free to low-cost upgrade and the choice of devices to pay for. What better approach? So far, what you have, somewhat suggested, is not better.

Actually I have not suggested anything. They are suggesting a whole new seller/customer relationship based on KEEP.
Wake up, will you?

[PB2000]

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re. None. Zero. Nada.

If they are quick as they are... let's say... uhm... korg vst was a 2002? 2003? ... uhm... Omnisphere REs.... 2023?

Perhaps! I mean BitSpeak emulates sounds from technology developed in the '70's and that's popular.

I know what you're saying. It's a new technology. Those sounds will come from Reason in the future. Maybe sooner than 2023, however...

[liquidsound]

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re. None. Zero. Nada.

If they are quick as they are... let's say... uhm... korg vst was a 2002? 2003? ... uhm... Omnisphere REs.... 2023?

for v2.1?

[myrna]

Like a Zebra, Omnisphere, Alchemy, MUX etc. etc. ?

I have no doubt you will see those titles or equivalents to those at some point in the future of Reason and Re. None. Zero. Nada.

If they are quick as they are... let's say... uhm... korg vst was a 2002? 2003? ... uhm... Omnisphere REs.... 2023?

Perhaps! I mean BitSpeak emulates sounds from technology developed in the '70's and that's popular.

I know what you're saying. It's a new technology. Those sounds will come from Reason in the future. Maybe sooner than 2023, however...

... ok 2022

[damoog]

what makes me laugh is people saying: "hey, what are you expecting from PH? Charity? It's business, their aim is makng money" etc. They play the "let's be cynical" game. Then, as soon as one like myself "dares" to say something "against" (?) reason, users get worried about propellerhead, and react as if they should defend a little unprotected kid bullied by us "the evil ones" (aka "the very unpleasant whiners")

To be fair to you Myrna reason users are indeed very defensive of their product(myself included)......the real shame about members here though myrna is their dislike of other members for using DIFFERENT SOFTWARE!!!...I love Reason but I consider somebody who uses ableton or Cubase just as worthy as somebody who uses reason-it's called PERSONAL PREFERENCE...I've tried them all and they are all brilliant in their own way especially when you consider the old days of hardware when everything was difficult really

ALSO as I hardcore reason user like myself it is always great to read about new cutting edge plug ins being released even though I can't get use them in reason so to speak...kvr forum should be much more a community thing most of the time