MacBook Pro

[Jace-BeOS]

Sarcasm doesn't work well in text, and especially not across cultural and linguistic barriers.

[Jace-BeOS]

myrna: have you sought assistance from Apple Store folks for your font issues? I really don't know how your experience could be so negative, based on what my own experiences are. Which model computer, which OS version and which external display model are you using? If you don't run an LCD at native resolution, it WILL be blurry and text WILL look bad. This is totally independent of the OS being used.

Native resolution has nothing to do with it when you work on pc. Only with mac, alas. Have you ever worked on a PC, even a crappy one? Thanks to the clear-type fonts, the reading experience is much more pleasant. Unluckely mac has no clear-type fonts, and you can notice the difference when working in high resolution monitors: mac fonts result blurred. Many mac fanboys claim that is much better, because mac blury fonts are more "natural" similar to "reading a book", while pc fonts are "cold"... but that is not true, it is just fanboysm, like when they defend the idiot jobs idea to maintain one mouse button.

I used PC from DOS 3.3(?) to Vista SP2. Every time I've used a PC with an LCD display, my experience has been consistent: in any resolution lower than native, EVERYTHING looks like CRAP. Are you telling me that the blurry ugliness on Windows at non-native LCD resolution is BETTER than the same kind of blurry ugliness on Mac OS? If that's what you are saying, I cannot express my own opinion of the difference (I've never compared) nor can I imagine how that would even happen. I CAN say that running in a non-native resolution is ASKING FOR PROBLEMS. They don't test it beyond bare minimum functionality because that's not the intended purpose of the hardware and software.

If you must work in reduced resolution for your own personal eye comfort, I highly recommend:

1. Finding a LCD that doesn't have such a high native resolution (older ones) & use its native resolution, or
2. Use a CRT (they do not suffer this issue), or
3. Disable font smoothing for sizes 12 and smaller (the LCD will still blur the pixels unless you go to native resolution!), or
4. Move to a PC, since you seem to greatly prefer Windows anyway.

I have visual acuity issues myself (near sighted and I find using eye correction with up close work to be extremely uncomfortable so I don't wear glasses/lenses when using computer/iPhone). That's why I'm drooling for a retina display. I hate feeling myself squinting at blurry text and graphics out of habit when I'm actually close enough not to squint (pixelated and antialiased text fools my brain into thinking I need to compensate for my near-sightedness, and it causes strain/migrains).

You're not accomplishing anything by continuously complaining about the single button mouse issue. Tech people agree with you. Non-tech people don't agree and there are way more of that kind of person being confronted with a need to operate computers. Change your setup as needed, if within your financial ability. Apple won't change to accommodate you in this case. Frankly, neither would Microsoft. Apple has its culture and so does Microsoft. I prefer Apple's. If you prefer Microsoft's, change platforms. No one will blame you for choosing what's best for you.

[myrna]

wait, i am not a macboy or a winboy I don't give a damn, I use both. And I can say once mac was a needed choice for the ones who wanted to play computer music. I switched to mac in 98 for this reason, because on windows 98 it was a continuous blue screen (crashes and computer freezing) with cubase vst. But not nowadays. I play on both platforms (a macbook pro and an AMD windows7 pc), and honestly there is no difference at all in terms of stability and performance: windows7 is as stable as mountain lion. But windows has something more regarding freedom and choices (at least 80% more plugins than mac). It is not like ten years ago, apart... well the mac has still blurred fonts and the one button mouse

Edit: it is not that the mac fonts are "blurred". It is that, not having clear-type fonts like in windows, they are not defined and result blurred compared to any PC screen. But it is not only me saying that, it is a well known issue. It has nothing to do with resolution, it is just a matter of "lack of technology"... i guess. Just compare reason or live words in mac (blurred) and in win (nitid) etc. I can notice that because: (1) i use both Mac and PC every day; (2) i am not a mac or win fanboy, i just use machines, they are nothing else than that for me.

[debra1rlo]

Edit: it is not that the mac fonts are "blurred". It is that, not having clear-type fonts like in wondows, they are not defined and result blurred compared to any PC screen. But it is not me saying that, it is a well known issue. It has nothing to do with resolution, it is just a matter of "lack of technology"... i guess. Just compare reason or live words in mac (blurred) and in win (nitid).

Um, really? I've done graphic design on both Macs & PCs for 15 years in the print industry, so I have dealt with thousands of fonts over the years and I have never seen this as an issue specific to either platform. On rare occasions, I have encountered blurry fonts but not very often and nothing that would indicate a platform specific issue...and of course, on that rare occasion, I simply don't use the font and it has never been an issue that has stopped me from printing a job...

Care to share where people are talking about this alleged issue? Because honestly I have read this thread and others you have participated in on KVR and to be painfully honest, just your word alone is shaky at best. Please point me to a forum or public gathering spot where other people are talking about this issue.

[myrna]

mhh... in english? for instance here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1862275
arguments like that are known

[debra1rlo]

mhh... in english? for instance here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1862275
arguments like that are known

Hmmm... read the one thread in the forum about that issue and some other links. Apparently this is an issue with the internet involved, if I'm not mistaken.

I have a W7 Quadcore Gateway and Mac Pro running side by side on my desk Adobe InDesign on the same fonts and I'm not seeing any difference.

And as one of the users said it was to display text accurately for print. Tbh, as a graphic designer I'd rather have accuracy than exaggerated readability and mutation at exaggerated magnifications.


But then I'm not on social networking sites so that's probably why I have not encountered this "problem."

Sorry, but once again, weak sauce of an argument.

But please respond with another rolly eyes emoticon, no one thinks that's getting old.

[myrna]

as I said, there is no need to be "macboys" against "winboys" i purely don't give a damn
It is a well known "debate", at least in italy. Mac fanboys claim cleartype is lame because it is too nitid, while mac fonts are more similar to printed words. I can notice the difference: windows cleartypes are far superior, infact when I stay let's say one hour on mac and then switch to pc, reading web pages and texts is much more pleasant than on mac.
Another link: http://forums.macnn.com/t/342674/cleartype-for-os-x

[mcnoone]

as I said, there is no need to be "macboys" against "winboys" i purely don't give a damn
It is a well known "debate", at least in italy. Mac fanboys claim cleartype is lame because it is too nitid, while mac fonts are more similar to printed words. I can notice the difference: windows cleartypes are far superior, infact when I stay let's say one hour on mac and then switch to pc, reading web pages and texts is much more pleasant than on mac.
Another link: http://forums.macnn.com/t/342674/cleartype-for-os-x

So in short, your taking the side of the windows/pc fanboy opinion.
Therefore your an apple basher, trolling on what was a good thread, and bringing it to all new levels of an annoying platform war.
Thanks.
Enjoy your short stay here at kvr.

[myrna]

No, I just say to the OP (and not to you): nowadays a mac is no more "the best choice" like 10 years ago for musicians: pc has 80% plugins more than mac, has cleartype resolution, vst (not the useless AU), windows 7 is as stable as mountain lion, macs are becoming more toysh and "family-friendly" year by year and professional environment "bye bye", thanks to the i-crap policy. Apple has too high prices for what it offers, at least here in italy. One single cable 39 eur, ridiclous. If you want to use Logic you are stuck on mac, because they have no pc version. And of course... the idiot mouse with one button

Edit: it is the second time you call me "a troll". First time was because I wrote a simple truth: in Italy there are two options for logic (logic studio and logic pro), with different prices (503 eur and 149 eur). Now because i simply reply to a user who ignored there's a well known font resolution issue.

... are you pissed off at me or what?

[debra1rlo]

as I said, there is no need to be "macboys" against "winboys" i purely don't give a damn
It is a well known "debate", at least in italy. Mac fanboys claim cleartype is lame because it is too nitid, while mac fonts are more similar to printed words. I can notice the difference: windows cleartypes are far superior, infact when I stay let's say one hour on mac and then switch to pc, reading web pages and texts is much more pleasant than on mac.
Another link: http://forums.macnn.com/t/342674/cleartype-for-os-x

funny how I can work with typography on pro programs on both platforms for 15 years and not notice any difference...

and funny how some people on the thread were like me and noticed no difference, so obviously this "issue" is not one that affects all users equally. did you happen to read those posts? I did, so thanks for providing evidence on my behalf as well.

soooo... basically this is an "issue" for "non-pros" or, if I may be so bold, a "non-issue" as clearly I do not value the opinion of casual web users over pro graphic designers.

[debra1rlo]

No, I just say to the OP (and not to you): nowadays a mac is no more "the best choice" like 10 years ago for musicians: pc has 80% plugins more than mac, has cleartype resolution, vst (not the useless AU), windows 7 is as stable as mountain lion, macs are becoming more toysh and "family-friendly" year by year and professional environment "bye bye", thanks to the i-crap policy. Apple has too high prices for what it offers, at least here in italy. One single cable 39 eur, ridiclous. If you want to use Logic you are stuck on mac, because they have no pc version. And of course... the idiot mouse with one button

Edit: it is the second time you call me "a troll". First time was because I wrote a simple truth: in Italy there are two options for logic (logic studio and logic pro), with different prices (503 eur and 149 eur). Now because i simply reply to a user who ignored there's a well known font resolution issue.

... are you pissed off at me or what?

I'm personally amused at your hypocrisy

as I said, there is no need to be "macboys" against "winboys" i purely don't give a damn

sure you don't. if you tell yourself that enough, I'm sure you're bound to believe it eventually.

[myrna]

well, i am not that rich, as you are... sorry. You call it "fanboysm"? I call it "money", alas ... now, since I have to spend money for those products, I must choose the best solution. And lately Apple is disappointing me. Something wrong with that? Is it something of a religion where you live? For me those are machines. And Apple Macs are particularly expensive. Maybe you find better proessional solutions on PC nowadays.

[mcnoone]

Edit: it is the second time you call me "a troll". First time was because I wrote a simple truth: in Italy there are two options for logic (logic studio and logic pro), with different prices (503 eur and 149 eur).

Because your argument is false.
There what is not included in the 149euro that is not included in the 503euro option?
That is the problem.
You lied. You made a list of things that you stated were not included in the 149euro Logic, that definitely are. Even in Italy.
The 149euro Logic, does contain all the jampacks, 15,000loops, al the effects, all the instruments. It simply lacks 3 outside daw applications, and you tried and failed at saying that is not so.
So giving false information on products, and their contents, is not an opinion that can be relied upon.
You are also a pc/windows fanboy, as you've made all sorts of claims that cannot be verified, no matter which forum posters say.
My macbook pro font's look better than my pc-windows font's.
It's an issue with pc font's that all users know about.
I can find links in other forums to prove my case as well.
So is my opinion of dry, furry, cold, windows font's any less valid?
Oh, and

to you as well.

[debra1rlo]

well, i am not that rich, as you are... sorry. You call it "fanboysm"? I call it "money", alas ... now, since I have to spend money for those products, I must choose the best solution.

rich? hardly uh, yeah, I bought a refurb Mac Pro for my "new" machine. and my BF has been out of work for over 3 yrs, so you are wrong. instead of assuming things about people, perhaps you can ask next time instead of making yourself appear foolish for assuming things.

and anyway, just because something is less expensive doesn't always make it a better VALUE than something that's more expensive. some of us view things from this perspective, especially when money is hard to come by.

And lately Apple is disappointing me. Something wrong with that? Is it something of a religion where you live? For me those are machines. And apple are particularly expensive.

so don't use their products if they don't meet your expectations. that's why I don't use PC's for my DAW. seems simple enough...
buuuuut... you don't see me crashing PC threads telling people they are idiots for using what works for them, because OBVIOUSLY different things work for different people.

and again, you assume wrong... for me they are also machines. but that doesn't mean one can't prefer one machine over another. it doesn't make it a religion just because you didn't have the same experience.

[myrna]

sorry, but I have to mute you two for a while, you are just bullying IMO. Bye.