Are we close to getting plugin compressors that sound like real ones?

[himalaya]

The plug I've been using is actually an SSL emu.

[kvaca]

The plug I've been using is actually an SSL emu.

under 100 bucks...hmm, it must be Glue than?

[jens]

could be StripBUS as well (which is priced way under 100$)...

[Agemo]

Some really interesting audio examples in this thread, but there's no agreement about what they mean. Shy didn't say that ONLY the SplitComp can imitate the taut sound of the Slate at low thresholds. He said EVEN the SplitComp CAN'T. And his examples bear that out. While the kick in the SplitComp example holds up fairly well, the snare is like soup.

(Actually it is the matching sound of the kick which tells you that a similar level of compression is applied in both examples. Without that similarity, the exercise would be meaningless.)

Himalaya has approximated the general character of the Slate, but his snare shows the same symptoms as the snare in the SplitComp example. And that is despite the fact that the overall level of compression in Himalaya's example is less than that in Shy's, as is obvious from the sturdiness of Himalaya's kick.

Shy's deliberate over-compression served to make a point, but another poster confused the issue by saying he 'preferred' less compression.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

The best way is to embrace both outboard analogue dyanamic processors and ITB digital dyanamic processors oppose to taking the side of one above the other. I think that everyone would certaintly agree that is how best to live and let live so to speak. I do not work in the land of audio fulltime and have not done so for a good few years now, I do not have the greatest of spaces nor a big stockpile of expensive analogue outboard processors at my very humble home setup but the few bits of outboard analogue dyanamics processors I do have work really well for tracking and also for sending submixes/groups through depending on the desired result but there are some really fine and equally useable DSP dynamics processors which work just great on material also. One does not have to spend a great deal of money on some decent analogue outboard dyanamics processors to have access to the best of both worlds, A good pair of examples are FMR Audio's 'Really Nice' Compressor & Levelling Amplifier (which is abit more agressive that the RNC) plus more:
http://www.fmraudio.com/rnc.htm & http://www.fmraudio.com/rnc.htm and they don't just do nice compressors either: http://www.mercenary.com/fmraudio.html, If Mercenary get into something then its a fair bet its of good pedigree, Speaking of which regarding Mercenary, I have a Drawmer 1968 which is good and wouldn't mind upgrading it to the Mercenary Edition and even add a 1969 perhaps even though it is not as good a compressor as the 1968 it has additonal features elsewhere. Then the Drawmer 1960 used can be had price wise pretty decent, Plus it double as a valve comp with a usable mic pre-amp and line inputs (well one line-in and one instrument in IIRC). Even the lesser Drawmer DL241 Comp/Limiter on the used market is good for some of prices I have seen them go for and the gates are really handy to boot, Toms being there strong point but will do a fair job on anything that needs to STFU on command.

Mecenary Audio's website here - http://www.mercenary.com/newgear.html - is worth bookmarking for gear pr0n at least. Always scourer the used ads/sections local to you or of course ebay...etc. If you are handy with a soldering iron there are quite a few good kits you could go for which save you alot of money, BYOC style, Forgot to mention Golden Age Projects N-Style comp, Can build an extremeley respectable channel strip for a fair price and is upgradable transformer wise (Mic-Pre, EQ and Comp). Another one I was impressed with and will end up picking up is (was known at first as Arsenal Audio By API) now named JDK Audio By API is thier RS22, Yes I know that it is definately not an API 2500 but for the price it is really difficult to find fault with it IMveryhumbleHO and used they go alot less than RRP/Street, It has the all important Thrust filtering circuit and both ff and fb topologies available IIRC.

Some real uber pr0n is these, A FatBustard one day I would like very much and a few Culture Vultures but not happening anytime soon: http://www.thermionicculture.com/index.php (No snake oil involved with anything these gentlemen create and sell at all even though they are not cheap by any means) and these are really sweet being modern takes on bonafide classics, Again with pricing to make one feel ill:
http://www.retroinstruments.com/ The STA and 176 are just rock solid. Obviously there are many bigger names but it does not need to be to work well, Going Lunchbox is viable and do-able if people were to weigh up what the possibilites are for the entry price and a few of the cheaper 500 series offerings...Not much more than 2 or 3 high priced software synthesizers Pending you are covered and don't really need another few to add to the collection...Same with most areas really.

So here is a track which is recent where I have abused some good old Joe Meek bits along with some of the ITB dyamics/distortion I have available, Might not be to everyones tastes but it demonstrates that a track with alot of dyanamic abuse can still sound somewhat dynamic (I think and if that makes any sense at all, I am not that great at describing things admiitedly) - http://soundcloud.com/nekro-sounds-audi ... t-untitled

Still I am no master of anything, I am always learning and if that drive ever lost its spark then I would call it a day

Death Is The Satisfaction Of Desire (or similar saying, Im sure you good people know what I mean)

All the best to all as always and shall give it a go getting close as I'm able to do so with Shy's intial file when I can do, Im not confident but still I shall give it a go. Cheers

Dean

Edit: Like yourself himalaya and also you Eric, I have used the lydkraft Tube-Tech CL1B hardware alot and that one is a great piece and worth the money, Softube's CL1B doesn't really do the real deal much justice with regards to simply passing a line level signal through it as a unity gain amplifier it still does something very pleasing to pretty much anything, Then just with the slightest needle movement on gain reduction whilst tracking it does great things plus works grand when totally smashed then mixed back parallel, Lower down in level than the uncompressed source signal.

Not had the time or cash to invest into Nebula and the closest I have got is the Focusrite LiquidMix but even with that its missing something yet still I like my LiquidMix alot and was gutted that Focusrite dropped it to be honest but can't do anything about it I'd have a pair of CL1B units racked up if I could afford to. Have never tried Slate's Dragon but what I have read it seems it can/does do fast 1176-ish compression which is something I'll be after when funds permit as I really like them for tracking snare drums for example, Just makes life easier

Edited for awful english

[Uncle E]

However, as close as we are with software being able to replace our old hardware, In the end I don't think it will matter one way or the other, it's just what one may be used to using to get the results they want. Except for maybe 1db more rms in hardware.

To further support what you're saying, there are converters like the Burl B2 Bomber and the Universal Audio 2192 that have complementary analog stages, such that they can actually be driven to some degree the way great hardware can be driven. Thus, a signal recorded into a Burl and then processed through the new UAD 1176's may have more akin to hardware than most of us are accustomed to.

[Uncle E]

But the challange was to match the overall level/density/gain reduction in that Slate Dragon demo, not to provide how well behaved your compressor is at your chosen settings. I thought that was obvious.

Himalaya, I only posted that because you asked me to, I said from the outset that it wasn't an accurate emulation. My only claim was that it doesn't fall apart.

[Uncle E]

And yet, the plugin I've used has managed to get extremely close to that Dragon sound without any tricks whatsoever.

Your latest effort is much more pleasant to listen to than your previous efforts but it's still not "extremely close". Try an attack setting in between this one and the settings you used before, your attack let too much of the transients through before and now it's killing the transients almost entirely. Similarly, back off on the threshold a bit, you were compressing less than the Slate before and now you're now compressing more.

[Uncle E]

Edit: Like yourself Himalya and also you Eric, I have used the lydkraft Tube-Tech CL1B hardware alot and that one is a great piece and worth the money, Softube's CL1B doesn't really do the real deal much justice with regards to simply passing a line signal through it as a unity gain amplifier it still does something very pleasing to pretty much anything and just with the slightest needle movement it does great things plus works grand when totally smashed mixed parallel lower down than the uncompressed source signal.

I have the Tube Tech Fairchild and, yes, it's grand.

[Agreed]

However, as close as we are with software being able to replace our old hardware, In the end I don't think it will matter one way or the other, it's just what one may be used to using to get the results they want. Except for maybe 1db more rms in hardware.

To further support what you're saying, there are converters like the Burl B2 Bomber and the Universal Audio 2192 that have complementary analog stages, such that they can actually be driven to some degree the way great hardware can be driven. Thus, a signal recorded into a Burl and then processed through the new UAD 1176's may have more akin to hardware than most of us are accustomed to.

IMO this is a fruitful path and works very well for improving the tracking experience in-the-box. Build, for all intents and purposes, a good analog pad that responds in a way we find pleasing - and put the ADC after it. It'll end up being kind of "black box" in how it plays out, gain-staging wise, but that's sort of the final analysis on why analog works in applications where direct-to-digital doesn't - there's a "black box" quality, quite a lot more of them depending on your rack setup... I'll take an ADC with one black-box to rule them all, and feed my computer a signal in a way that should, at least theoretically, offer if not the best of both worlds, at least a significant improvement over the sort of babysitting of levels that really needs to be done when tracking to digital.

Gain staging, always comes back to gain staging, doesn't it. Of course one could always run a favored device right before the ADC to approximate this effect, but then you're having your cake and eating it too, which is (going by some of the discussions surrounding the topic of analog vs. digital in professional circles) heretical!

[kvaca]

And yet, the plugin I've used has managed to get extremely close to that Dragon sound without any tricks whatsoever.

Your latest effort is much more pleasant to listen to than your previous efforts but it's still not "extremely close".

but Im sure himalaya was "extremely closer" than you

and to be honest I need to say that I dont prefer Dragon example over good software attempts,becouse it got more distorted kick than is acceptable for my taste also overall sound is more phasey compared to Splictcomp or himalaya which is not pleasant to me too...theres only one thing I dont like in Splitcomp is that snare pumping but thats not a problem in himalaya demos I think

[Dean Aka Nekro]

You are a lucky dude in many ways Eric mate Maybe someday my luck will pickup and at least sort of exist as it is it just doesn't exist. Still I say that sans-envy as whatever hand a person gets dealt in life is just the way it is. That and its not like you simply want something, snap your fingers and it is yours as although I ain't a business man, I know it don't work that way.

The one thing which surprised me the most in this thread is you being accused of pushing your wares on people and putting down what you do not stock/deal, That one was a WTF? moment for me FWIW. I mean having to defend yourself against that is simply not fair I wonder if the accuser knows about the killer kitty thread? Anyway your opinion is null, void due to ulterior motives ya biased sales man. You have no opinion You are one of the friends here I know that are definately not one to hold back on your own personal opinion on audio tools. Not as sharp and brutal as Shy okay but still that is what makes us all different. Otherwise the market place would be your only haunt

This track is dedicated to the accuser: Grooves like a damned mule @1.22 onwards

Peace to all and excuse the OT bits, I can't help it

[kvaca]

The one thing which surprised me the most in this thread is you being accused of pushing your wares on people and putting down what you do not stock/deal, That one was a WTF? moment for me FWIW. I mean having to defend yourself against that is simply not fair

Dean, he /Uncle E/ apparently promoted - and many times - only overpriced dsp based software to be good substitution to hw...but WITHOUT any single testdemo like he HAVE PROMISED before...so what may people who dont know him like you think about him??

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I'm sure Eric will keep His promise of demo clips when He can do kvaca and I was/am only trying to lighten the air a little bit, I never take things deadly seriously, If that gets lost in translation then for that I apologize man

All I mean't to say was unless Eric or anyone else for that matter be they a developer, an employee of a developer/company or a store owner, sales person/dealer *There are the odd blatent exceptions though* when talking on threads are to me at least (perhaps I am abit naive?) simply talking as users of whatever it is being discussed/debated just as equals. Personally I have never bought anything on the say so of anybody but myself, Yes indeed I might of and will continue to try out gear recommended by anyone but unless I am really into it myself then I never drop the hammer on anything.

Hope that you understand where I am coming from and it is only my point of view - I could be dead wrong but even so it never has cost me a penny

All the best to you

Dean

[Uncle E]

but Im sure himalaya was "extremely closer" than you

Yes, I said before I posted it that my example wasn't good. What about this isn't clear to you? My exact statement was, "If that's all we're listening for, I achieved that with even Maschine's little built-in compressor. However, I don't think we're going to learn anything until we emulate the effect as whole because otherwise they won't be doing the same things."

and to be honest I need to say that I dont prefer Dragon example over good software attempts,becouse it got more distorted kick than is acceptable for my taste

None of the software examples emulated what it's doing to the kick. It's fine if you don't like or want that but the point is that none of the software represented so far could do what the hardware is doing. I did actually get there by using a crossover in guitar rig, with an LA2A on the low-end and an SSL Buss Compressor on high-end, although I'm not going to post it after all the grief you guys have given me over those stupid Maschine compressor examples.