OXIUM -New Xils-lab synthesizer- [ Jp8 Comparison :) ]

[Lotuzia]

While a click firing off randomly isn't very musical, having that click at the beginning of each note is IMO one way to make a percussive sound cut thru the mix. You don't even hear it in a mix, so much as sense it.

When I started out with electronic music everything was sample-based, and a click always meant a bad edit and I avoided it, but these days, you know, lots of real instruments have a click sound related to their impact, and so it should be with some synth sounds.

Well same answer, just try the demo and you'll see. Oxium can be very punchy, no probs.

[hakey]

many users already find the filters very creamy, and said it quite loudly

Creamy or fuzzy?

Why does the fully open filter with 100% resonance generate what sounds like white noise?

[Lotuzia]

Let's discuss Le Masque in Oxium.

Maybe the best way to make people understand what is unique in it is to compare it with commonly found existing modulators.

Le Masque compared to a StepSequencer :

In its most simple use, Le Masque can mimic the behaviour of a stepsequencer, howerer :

• Each Mask has 2 "level" parameters
  There are two global envelopes for the masks
  The pattern lenght can be very long ( 16 bars for example, or just one )
  You can save/load patterns ( We'll include 17 factory patterns in the next updates )

Discontinuous zones and custom length

More than all the above the concept from Le Masque from the beginning is that the masks ( ie steps in this case) can have ANY lenght, and that you can also have empty zones ( the masks dont have to be continuous )

Le Masque Locators can be quantized, or not.

This means that you have total freedom and control to built any rythm pattenrs very easily.

Example : Say you want to make some traditional funky rythmic modulations based on the dooted 8th note figure ? Just make a funky lego and freely combine 8th and 16th note long masks.

Vertical Quantize

The vertical quantize option can be usefull for many things, but its the key feature if you want to make tonal sequences with Oxium. Just assign one of the levels to the Global Pitch parameter in the Mod Matrix and Le Masque will give you a +-1 octave ambitus to build your sequences. As the lenght of the Masks is free, you can combine staccatos with very long notes. Here again, total freedom.

There are a lot of unique things in Le Masque, but this should hopefully give a first idea of how powerfull it can be.

LtZ

Sorry for self quote but in case some people did not see it

[vurt]

Well I dont know, Oxium sounds so plasticky that a real Jupiter 8 owner finds it closer to its JP8 than all leading competitors, and that many users already find the filters very creamy, and said it quite loudly, in this thread or other ones. ymmv of course. We cant please everybody

i didnt say its filter sounds plasticky overall, i said on that one example. and also asked for a further demonstration with a more musical comparison. stop being so defensive.

[hakey]

Seems he just said that to get the exact same click with the competitor, you should vary the envelope settings.

That's not what I said. Increasing the leading competitor's envelope release gets a click of about equal perceived volume - however, the click thus produced has a different timbre.

[Lotuzia]

Well I dont know, Oxium sounds so plasticky that a real Jupiter 8 owner finds it closer to its JP8 than all leading competitors, and that many users already find the filters very creamy, and said it quite loudly, in this thread or other ones. ymmv of course. We cant please everybody

i didnt say its filter sounds plasticky overall, i said on that one example. and also asked for a further demonstration with a more musical comparison. stop being so defensive.

Hence why I said that it seems you can get the same proeminent click with the other one, according to what the author himself said. And probably with tons of other synths.

Well its quite easy to make any good synth sound bad actually, I can do it in a minute, be it with Oxium, or other synths.

[hakey]

Well its quite easy to make any good synth sound bad actually, I can do it in a minute, be it with Oxium, or other synths.

You're missing the point Laurent.

This all started where I said that I thought that Oxium's envelopes weren't very snappy. You disagreed.

However, the clips do indeed show that Oxium's envelopes are not as snappy as the leading competitor's, as illustrated by the prominent click caused by the filter closing in the release portion of the notes in the Oxium clip (remember, both the filter and VCA release times were set at their absolute minimum). This is further supported by the fact that to get a release click of equal prominence with the other synth requires increasing its envelope release times!

Therefore Oxium's envelope release is audibly slower than the competitor's.

Slower = Not As Snappy

Get it?

[Crackbaby]

See what happens when someone writes the word D*va. That google app will search through the forum here and alert all those ... err.. what are they called..?
Both synths are fantastic. All developers behind them are great guys, all very social, supernice and intelligent.
I admire Lotuzia's patience and diplomatic will.

If you want to compare synths, please make a separate thread where it's easier to follow the logic on how things should be.

[mcnoone]

Both synths are fantastic. All developers behind them are great guys, all very social, supernice and intelligent.
I admire Lotuzia's patience and diplomatic will.

If you want to compare synths, please make a separate thread where it's easier to follow the logic on how things should be.

+11111111111111...0

[stillshaded]

As far as the envelopes lacking snap, not a valid argument as you can do recursive modulation with them. Might not be absolutely ideal, but it can result in extremely "snappy" envelopes.

[Crackbaby]

I think the issue is that "Person A" said that "Synth X" CAN be equally [something] as "Synth Y" and "Person B" sunk his teeth in deep because "Person B" loves "Synth Y" so much and this was clearly a violation.

.... So now this "Person B" will rape and pillage this thread as his own personal battleground and will not let go of his bite until there's no more blood pulsating in it.


Please prove me wrong

[hakey]

rape and pillage this thread

Oh the humanity!

[hakey]

As far as the envelopes lacking snap, not a valid argument as you can do recursive modulation with them.

Not what I'd call recursive, but what you can do is route modwheel or velocity to the VCA and filter envelopes' attack and release, which does indeed increase the snappiness.

However, it's a cumbersome work around that's far from ideal, taking up four modulation slots and only working when modulation is applied, ie, it's proportional to modwheel/velocity with no way to globally fix the degree of 'snap'.

Surely, it would be preferable to have that kind of snappiness available using the standard envelope controls at their minimum settings?

[Crackbaby]

Have you bought the synth or do you plan to, if no to both, if the "snappissue" would be sorted out, would you buy it then?
I know im starting to sound like a defensive fanboy ... but this is about the kvr'ism and the interlectualism ... which is a joke to begin with!
All this "must be right at all costs and at other people's expense".
If you only had written "can the decay be made even shorter in an upcoming update? I wan't my sounds supersnappy!". That would would most likely have led to a "sure, ill consider it". It's much easier to get what you want if you stroke people the right way so to speak. This is why i ask if you plan to buy it. Had you really been genuinely interested in shortening the decay i am confident you could have expressed yourself in such way and not "get it?".

You brought some valid points in your original post though.
I haven't tested this, but cutoff at 0% and env depth at 100% - it should open up fully .. i think. Not really an issue to me but .. it makes sense i guess...
I'd love to see the vovelfilter to be sweepable! But maybe this limitation is good. I have yet to abuse it. I'd love to be able to make some "Angelic particles" (by hallucinogen) voicepads. Not sure if those are real samples from some roland rompler though.

Lotuzia, ask me and i remove this post and keep my cool and just facepalm myself IRL to prevent me to go into some lame forumbrawl

[Lotuzia]

Well its quite easy to make any good synth sound bad actually, I can do it in a minute, be it with Oxium, or other synths.

You're missing the point Laurent.

This all started where I said that I thought that Oxium's envelopes weren't very snappy. You disagreed.

However, the clips do indeed show that Oxium's envelopes are not as snappy as the leading competitor's, as illustrated by the prominent click caused by the filter closing in the release portion of the notes in the Oxium clip (remember, both the filter and VCA release times were set at their absolute minimum). This is further supported by the fact that to get a release click of equal prominence with the other synth requires increasing its envelope release times!

Therefore Oxium's envelope release is audibly slower than the competitor's.

Slower = Not As Snappy

Get it?

Yes its more clear now.

So actually its only the release parameter of the filter envelope under particular extreme settings ( self rez etc) that is your concern and the object of your audio clips, and not "the envelopes" themselves as a whole.

You might find that on the Attack stage, its the reverse, and that Oxium is more snappy, ot that Oxium has more definition and a better quantize, is more detailed, for the attacks stages with another test. Also I dont know if you used the modifier keys to use fine quantize to fine shape the envelope parameters etc etc , and finally it might be related to some other parameters than strictly envelopes.

Anyway eventually its true. There are many things that you can do to change this in Oxium, but even if there was none I would not find it a real problem : There are many "snappy in the release" patches in the factory library.

More than that: You can modulate the envelope segments in Oxium to get an even wider range in the mod matrix ( after all not all synths can modulate envelope segments, nor do all synths have a sophisticated mod matrix ) With this feature alone, Oxium can approach the behaviour of many real world instruments, and while I agree the first concern of a VA synthesizer might not be to strictly emulate real instruments, everyone will eventually agree that it does open some possibilities to create expressive and "well balanced over the keyboard" instruments at least.

And to Crackbaby : Its a free forum, so you're ...... free. Thanks a lot for defending Oxium, and yes trying to avoid to make the Oxium official thread have problems is definitely appreciated. Another Oxium thread was locked recently. Some people will not express any positive comments about some synths when posting in Kvr, but well some people also change over time, so the hope is never totally useless ( and sometimes its the only thing left lol like in Pandora's box ) Staying civil and with courtesy is always cool, when the comments stay moderate and a real will to communicate is expressed from both sides I think.

As for the voyelfilter, you can make it sweep with moderate settings, especially ammounts, but, as noticed Hakey, the transitions are sharp. Abrupt can give good things btw, but the reverse is certainly also true. We might refine a bit its behaviour, or add another mode, in the future. I found the voyel filer very usefull to make some hybrid or semi real instruments, it is really capable of adding an organic and pseudo "acoustic" touch/component to many instruments, so its a very nice addition imho.

LtZ