Lets talk about 64 bit

[myrna]

64 bit is a pain in the ass, because you have no choice: you must run 64 bit plugins in a 64 bit host. And the bloody bridge does not work properly. That is why so many users here go to the market place and sell their old 32 bit plugins... at least 50%. AU is worse than ever, because at last developers update vst 100% but not always AU, or with reluctance, due to users demand (not for sales reasons). The future is 64 bit vst on windows 8, if things in apple won't change, mac users like myself will be stuck or will switch platform for professional aims.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[morelia]

So, why is there so much whohaha about 64 bit.

The new Waves v9 software doesn't play well at all for me (and quite a few others) in 32bit. I've seen Cubase and Reaper implicated so far. If not for this I'd happily still be using Reaper 32bit on Win 7 x64. Now I run 64 bit Reaper with most of my plugins installed as 64 bit and some bridged. Slowly converting everything to x64 (thanks to Waves ). It's not all bad I guess.

The bugs is a recognized one and has existed since v9 release day 1 but Waves are yet to fix the issue.

[fisherKing]

64 bit is a pain in the ass, because you have no choice: you must run 64 bit plugins in a 64 bit host. And the bloody bridge does not work properly. That is why so many users here go to the market place and sell their old 32 bit plugins... at least 50%. AU is worse than ever, because at last developers update vst 100% but not always AU, or with reluctance, due to users demand (not for sales reasons). The future is 64 bit vst on windows 8, if things in apple won't change, mac users like myself will be stuck or will switch platform for professional aims.

you keep on about the same thing, on every thread. "50%"...where do you get your info? can you share that with us?? yes, u run 64bit apps...in a 64bit environment. the bridge (if you're talking about Logic) IS buggy, it crashes periodically. you can restart it WITHOUT quitting logic, and go back to work. better than nothing.

the point is...it's up to the developers to update their plugins. technology keeps progressing...you can't expect apple to hold things back to satisfy your particular wishes.

i think you should switch platforms NOW, and stop going on (and on) about apple, about AU's, about nothing really. if that ONE particular developer (applied acoustics) isn't updating all their plugins that you rely on...that's on them.

we adapt and move forward, or we fall behind. that's how progress works.

[hibidy]

fisher, you need to speak to 9V now

Anyways, it's amazing to me how much time and effort goes into x64 threads. This should be cut and paste:

"so, why why is everyone interested in x64 anyways?"

"because it allows you to have access to more ram (if installed) so you can run plugins that use more ram"

"oh, cool, thanks"

[fisherKing]

fisher, you need to speak to 9V now

Anyways, it's amazing to me how much time and effort goes into x64 threads. This should be cut and paste:

"so, why why is everyone interested in x64 anyways?"

"because it allows you to have access to more ram (if installed) so you can run plugins that use more ram"

"oh, cool, thanks"

[angelremington]

fisher, you need to speak to 9V now

Anyways, it's amazing to me how much time and effort goes into x64 threads. This should be cut and paste:

"so, why why is everyone interested in x64 anyways?"

"because it allows you to have access to more ram (if installed) so you can run plugins that use more ram"

"oh, cool, thanks"

+1

[morelia]

"so, why why is everyone interested in x64 anyways?"

"because it allows you to have access to more ram (if installed) so you can run plugins that use more ram"

"oh, cool, thanks"

That's about it. But my case is one example of another reason someone might go x64.

[DuX]

Going 64-bit is still for those who like to be "adventurous", so to speak. I like my system to work smoothly and flawlessly, without me thinking something will go bad. So I wouldn't say it's all about progress... it's about making music, it should always be about making music, and I like to make music without thinking about operating system, what plugin to use etc. That's not thinking about music and being creative. Fuc* progress if my projects crash and if they make me endlessly diagnose and research what's wrong with it and how can I make it work.

However, I am one of the "lucky" ones who's projects don't go over about 1-2GB, not because they're less complex, but because I use good, efficiently programmed plug-ins, and I use them wisely. Having a very complex project that uses only between 1GB-2GB of RAM is the result of my wisdom and knowledge, not just a stroke of luck. On the other hand, people needing more RAM for their projects is something else...

Well, I'm in making music with computers since the very early days, the Atari days in the 90s, so maybe I just think a little differently than the youth of today. I also used to do wonders with a Pentium 200, 128MB of RAM, and first Cubase on PC. Do you remember that time? Does anybody? I think people just want to use new tools for the sake of using new tools, without even properly knowing how to use and abuse the tools we already have. I encounter that problem with people very often in my line of work. People having hundreds upon hundreds of plugins on their OSes, and knowing only a few of them. People have become tooo superficial about everything. And spoiled, and lazy to learn, too. I also see how they use these plugins. They can top the 2GB of RAM and CPU in a matter of minutes because they don't know how to use plugins efficiently! Like loading the whole 1GB or more drumkit in Kontakt just for the snare, and loading the whole other 1GB drumkit just for the kick! Maan?! I think you know the word for that... English is a pretty colourful language.

So yes, I'm still on XP 32-bit. You probably gathered that. "Guilty" as charged. And I don't feel the need to change anything at all. It gives me about 100x too much already. And I tend to think everybody should be able to work wonders with it, even the Film producers, ttoz... they used to make music with computers 20 years, or 10 years ago, too, you know? And it sounded great! Don't tell me poor film producers cannot make quality music with 2GB of RAM any more. Poor guys. I honestly feel sorry for them. Maybe they should rework and revise their workflow and plugins instead of going 64 bit? If they want to work without any interruptions and problems that 64-bit OS and plugins can and do tend to still give you these days? I'm not saying I won't go 64bit, and that it's unnecessary, just that it still isn't there yet for me to enjoy working with it, and I don't feel compelled enough to go through all the upgrading mambo-jumbo that can take me a month or more to set up the OS properly, just so I could use more memory that I don't need, and "enjoy" the new operating system, DAW, drivers, plug-in, etc. problems. Therefore, I tend to change my operating system about every 5 years... essentially every time when I assemble a new computer. It's just too tedious and complicated to do it more often for me. I want to work with it, not lose time on diagnosing it. That's what I get paid for... and I don't want to bring my work home.

Cheers!

[Karmacomposer]

Well, I will probably have to eventually pony up for a 64 bit language, but right now the one I want to use is 32 bit only - but can be used for everything from games to vst's to business apps - and I already own it.

When I decide to develop for 64 bit, i'll more than likely have to go with Delphi since I already know a bit of Delphi coding. Damn, it's expensive.

Hopefully a project will demand it, but right now, vst development would be the ONLY reason to even bother currently. Not enough of my clients would even care about 64 bit because internet, business and utility programs don't take up much RAM. Of course, with 64 bit servers in place now, it may become necessary, but so far, I have not noticed a problem when I create a 32 bit app for a client to run on a 64 bit server. Perhaps it would run faster or stay the same.

I get that anything created in a true 64 bit system can utilize a LOT more system RAM, but with Disk Streaming in any of the large scale plugins I use and the rest being MUCH smaller low cpu virtual instruments, these seem to chug along fine.

Here is what I use when I am creating music (not all on every production):

StormDrum V1
EWQLSO Gold XP
Stylus RMX
Omnisphere (but not so much)
PRIZM (Wusik)
Superwave plugs (P8, Performer, Tarkus, etc)
Freeware plugs like Texture, String Thing, etc.
Wivi
Pianoteq
Truepianos
Garritan Instant Orchestra (brand new - not really applicable)
Monstrous (when needed)
Nebula M42/Galaxy M51
Sytrus (sparingly - that one is a HOG)
Harmless
Ogun
Alchemy
Microtonic
Cantor
ADD
Halion
Kontakt (used to be 2, but that was too buggy so I rarely used it - now I have 5 and we'll see how that goes).

Komplete synths such as FM8 and Absynth I will use on occasion. Now that I have Komplete 8, Massive is back in the picture and I have new stuff to play with, but none of it can be held accountable for what I stated in this original thread since I am sure some of those would easily eat up RAM.

I'm sure there's a few more i'm forgetting, but those are the main ones I use. I've had pretty large track counts in Presonus Studio One Pro with effects on some channels and little problems. I almost never have to bounce tracks.

I tend not to choose specific plugins - I just kinda go with the flow. Now, I will say this. I always - and mean - ALWAYS start with Stylus RMX and then render that to audio when I am done creating the groove - I have always created my scores in stages and not ALL AT ONCE. Like another person said above, back when there were Pentiums (not even Pentium 4s), I was still creating music and you had to be careful because you did not have much system resources to work with, so perhaps my age is showing here. Stylus RMX is the only thing I render and do not use live - I just don't see the point. It's not dynamic. Once the groove is finished - it's finished unless minor tweaking needs to be done. Everything else i'll run live.

Now, I do tend to save my work quite a bit, take breaks and shut the computer down and come back to it fresh. In rare instances I do a 4 to 6 hour session and just get it done in one shot. I really have had little or no problems. Once in a while i'll have a USB hard drive hiccup and that will cause a brief headache, but nothing horrible and not a show stopper.

I do NOT use any 64 bit plugins because too many of the ones I use are 32 bit only and they are quite important to me, so I will stay 32 bit until it is impossible to do so.

Mike

[wasi]

If the same exact effects chain runs with 30% less CPU as 64bit in a 64bit DAW than it does in 32bit, that really ends any argument right there for me.

Maybe some people's setups don't rely as heavily on whatever it is that makes mine so much smoother in 64bit, but mine does. I don't know what it is or why, but I don't need to argue in facvor of what is glaringly obvious.

[Shabdahbriah]

Just an aside. Anyone still using Windows Xp 32-bit (raises hand), and needing to bypass it's 3-4Gb RAM limitation:

ramdisk

Currently WAY cheaper than an 'SSD' and rocks!!!

(works with Win 7 also)

[P.T.]

Just an aside. Anyone still using Windows Xp 32-bit (raises hand), and needing to bypass it's 3-4Gb RAM limitation:

ramdisk

Currently WAY cheaper than an 'SSD' and rocks!!!

(works with Win 7 also)

Where do you put the extra ram in a 32 bit system?
The motherboard only supports 4gb.
And, SSD isn't the issue here.

[EvilDragon]

The motherboard is not the limitation, the OS is - it can be the latest possible motherboard which can load 32 GB of RAM, and you can still put a 32-bit OS on it, that would limit it to 4 GB. It'd be a waste of RAM, but yeah, you can do it.

[softska]

The motherboard is not the limitation, the OS is - it can be the latest possible motherboard which can load 32 GB of RAM, and you can still put a 32-bit OS on it, that would limit it to 4 GB. It'd be a waste of RAM, but yeah, you can do it.

Not true. There's set amount of maximum your motherboard will accept. Occasionally you get more via bios update I think, but it's always mentioned in the manual.

Just to comment on Logic/64bit: Under OSX Lion/Mountain Lion there're cases 32bit is significantly less stable vs 64bit. Correct answer is to stay on 10.6 and happy ever after... Other than the fact it won't install on any of the new 2012 machines